Author: sansukong

Debate: Should Britain QUIT The European Union?   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2013-7-10 16:21:38 |Display all floors
Bothsidesnow Post time: 2013-7-10 00:28
Is that the best you can do mister?

What happened to human rights and democracy, your double-stero ...

Again you remain off topic with an incoherent rant.

Is your single approach to an argument to tell other people what they like/think, do and don't do? Britain won't be "expelled" so you may as well get over that desire.

I really don't think a supporter of every corrupt police state on the planet is in a good place to call me a hypocrite - whatever your opinion, Britain is  more successful at applying human rights and democracy than North Korea, Russia and the rest of the kleptocratic tin pot dictatorships you cheer. To say otherwise just propagates your pig headed ignorance.

What your latest attempt to alter the debate towards Britain's human rights record has to do with the discussion is again not obvious and unilaterally changing the topic under discussion doesn't count.

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Post time 2013-7-10 17:32:47 |Display all floors
verdane Post time: 2013-7-10 16:11
And there in lies the problem.

The EU was created by the French for the French, or that's how it ...

I agree with you that the European Union has been created in order to benefit French interests (the main one being not having our collective asses handed to us by the Germans again...).

And that's precisely what I am saying from the very beginning, the EU members wonder what they can get from EU, not what they can do for EU. France is no more innocent than other countries. Actually the only country playing nice is Germany.

As for the Maastricht treaty, the French voted in favour of it, I believe you are alluding to the Lisbon treaty which was, indeed, rejected by the French but mainly because they were opposing the French government at the time (yes, although it was not relevant or logical, they wanted to punish the government by voting no at a referendum about Europe).

And, once again, the reason the French people start to be skeptic regarding the European Union is because it became this gigantic bureaucratic blob which is actually creating more hassles for the people when the purpose was to make peoples' lives easier. But there is a difference between skepticism and sepratism, very few French people actually want to leave the EU, a lot of French people want to rewrite the rules because right now they are as clear as a donkey's ass in the middle of the night.
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Post time 2013-7-10 20:51:42 |Display all floors
seneca Post time: 2013-7-10 20:29
I find the following very hard to swallow:
This is an argument advanced by all sceptics as well as many supporters of the E.U., yet it has hardly convinced anyone that the E.U. should be abolished


Have you read anything I wrote ? I certainly don't advocate the EU should be abolished, au contraire, I advocate for more EU and less nationalism. I long for the day when the EU athletes will compete in the olympic games under one flag (and by the way, the EU would win more medals than the US or China).

And I truly believe that the only way to do this is to stop accepting new members until our situation is stabilized and our future looks brighter.
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Post time 2013-7-10 20:56:28 |Display all floors
seneca Post time: 2013-7-10 20:29
I find the following very hard to swallow:
DOn't the French add their own huge surplus of new and annoying rules toprotect national interests and hamper other nations'?


Once again, making my point. The EU was created in order to bring people together. Apparently this great idea gave birth to a bureaucratic monster. It is not the French people, or the German people, or the Italian people who add huge surplus of new and annoying rules to supposedly protect national interests (in reality just the lobbies), it is the bureaucrats !

Why did the EU need a law stating than jam can only be made out of fruits ? Who does it bother if some guy wants to do cucumber jam ?

If you read what I wrote, I am not saying France has no responsibility in this mess. But that's the problem in the EU, when one person from one country says something, he must certainly has an hidden agenda benefiting his country... Well, I don't, I just want a strong EU.
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Post time 2013-7-10 21:40:31 |Display all floors
MisterPanda Post time: 2013-7-10 17:32
I agree with you that the European Union has been created in order to benefit French interests (th ...

Apologies - yes I was referring to the Lisbon treaty.

I think the issue with bloated bureaucracy is the main issue that many in the UK have with the EU, it's not with Europe generally, which I think is the perception some European's might have of the British. Actually,leaving the EU is something only a passionate minority of (mostly older) people are significantly in favor of. They feel that they were misled about what the EU was about (ie political union not just trade). If so they were misled by our own politicians when they voted to join the EEC.
care that much.

Personally I wish the collective nation states would work together to reduce the bureaucratic mess we now have. Our Prime minister blew the opportunity to propose changes due to his blundering diplomacy a few years back -  now no one wants to listen, but that is hardly surprising.

I suspect the Germany is the only country in Europe that anyone is likely to take seriously right now if anything is to change and even then half of Southern Europe now seems resentful towards them.

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Post time 2013-7-10 22:41:54 |Display all floors
TheHermit Post time: 2013-7-10 07:45
If I may be allowed to correct you......it is the UK that has the huge farms and not the continent ...

Always happy to hear a different viewpoint.

UK does not have a big agri-industry and contributes more than it receives in this sector, but does have some big farms which receive substantial benefits from the EU.

As I understand it, CAP was a Franco-German arrangement. It is due for re-negotiation this year, that's why I mentioned it. It is not working out for the Brits.

On an equally interesting point, technically speaking is Scotland still a member of the EU ?

Let the dice fly high

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Post time 2013-7-11 02:47:43 |Display all floors
cestmoi Post time: 2013-7-10 22:41
Always happy to hear a different viewpoint.

UK does not have a big agri-industry and contributes  ...

The CAP was in place before Britain joined..... The British consumer would have benefited greatly from the CAP, had Britain never joined. The EU would then be subsidizing and enhancing the British menu.

Scotland, and correct me if I am wrong, is a region within the EU. One imagines that if it gained independence Scotland would have to negotiate its own terms, if it wished to become a member.
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