Author: expatter

Chengguan Need to be Reformed, Not Scrapped ...... [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2011-6-18 22:25:20 |Display all floors
Originally posted by 468259058 at 2011-6-18 22:11

hahahaa..I answered you in another post. I didn't vote. But

1. Progress were made step by step.
Several hundred years ago, only the white had the vote right in U.S. Several ten years ago, th ...


that you already send me by pm and I answered you it all in pm reply,
pretty much destroying all your so called arguments that you come up with here.
您买象牙 - 您杀了大象!
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjU1Nzg0NDky.html - “用现代文明标准比划中国人,是严重的种族歧视行为。”
„Ich ficke wo, wen, und wann ich will, hast du mich verstanden. Auch du könntest ficken, aber du kannst es ja gar nicht, deine deutsche Genauigkeit... verbietet es dir“. Jean-Claude Juncker

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Post time 2011-6-18 22:27:42 |Display all floors
Originally posted by LCSULLA at 2011-6-18 22:23
why change anything about them,
aren't they pretty good at what they do?
Or is beating up people not what they're supposed to do?
And if not?
Please explain anyone to me well reasening and  ...
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Or you could read my post #8 ..........

Of course if that is not too much exertion for you ..........   

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Post time 2011-6-18 22:42:06 |Display all floors
Originally posted by expatter at 2011-6-18 21:44
  ..............................
And regulations .........
Are not rules .........
And rules are not law  ........
And the law is not the government  ...........  
And the police . ...

1. Like the famous case that a street vendor killed a chengguan in Beijing in 2007.
The street vendor is only struggling for survival: enough food. The Chengguan is a good guy viewed by his neighbors. That Chengguan had to follow those regulations. the street vendor only want to survive. At last one killed another.
What caused this tragedy?
In my memory, the orgininal news report didn't give an answer.

2. regulations are changing fast in the present China. The power in different department was often changed from time to time.
Many one practice was okay yesterday. But today it is wrong. China is on the reform, especially the housing reform, education reform, healthcare reform ....After the law changed, many regulations changed, and were changing, and are chaning, and will change.

3. In many cases, ordinary Chinese can't run their business if they follow all of these regulations.  Many local government departments would make strict regulations to drive people breaking those regulations. After that Guanxi and invisible laws would dominate the practice. Government officials would get more fines and more corruption, more bribes.  A latest news report last month in CCAV revealed such practice in China. "Why are the transportion fee so high in China?" Express companies have to break regulations in urban area. Trucker drivers have to break in moto way. "Whatever they can find an excuse to fine you. If you asked the fine invoice, you would be fined much high. If you didn't ask the fine inovice, you would be fined little."
....
That is to say, Huge government power are owned by distinct government departments with a lack of supervision.
For example, street vendors don't have the right to express their opinions during the regulation-making. They often don't know the regulation but only want to get enough food. They would resist and take violent actions against chengguan when chengguan cut off the sources for getting enough food.

From one's own experience, most of ordinary Chinese have sympathy with Street vendors.

[ Last edited by 468259058 at 2011-6-18 11:00 PM ]
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Post time 2011-6-18 23:13:14 |Display all floors
Originally posted by 468259058 at 2011-6-18 22:42
1. Like the famous case that a street vendor killed a chengguan in Beijing in 2007.
The street vendor is only struggling for survival: enough food. The Chengguan is a good guy viewed by his neig ...
...........................................................


QUOTE: From one's own experience, most of ordinary Chinese have sympathy with Street vendors.


They are still breaking the law for their own purposes .........

This latest incident which was reported with Western aplomb is a good example ..........

I have seen the violence that these illegal vendors vent on chengguan first hand  ........

When the authorities follow 'the rules' and try to confiscate their tricycles .........

It is not pretty ........

Those breaking the law seem to take this to an upper limit to defend that which they already knew they risked .........

And if they think they can get away with it then more join them .........

An impossible scenario ..........

And a poor omen for any kind of democracy in China as this involves the willingness of all to abide by the rules or decisions deemed by a majority ................

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Post time 2011-6-19 00:01:41 |Display all floors
Originally posted by 468259058 at 2011-6-18 23:37
For example income Fee:
Could you enjoy government service after you hand in tax and Fee? In many cases, probably No access!
Is it a shame or diginity to escape the present tax?
Many chinese don ...
  ....................................


Cool ....................

In the West once you have posted your vote  .........

Everything passes to the bureaucracy and there is no further say ..........

People do NOT have a say ........

No matter what system ....

It is just in democracy where they lay a paw print .........

They think they have a say  .............  

But I don't think so ..............   

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Post time 2011-6-19 00:04:26 |Display all floors
For example income Fee:
Could you enjoy government service after you hand in tax and Fee? In many cases, probably No access!
Is it a shame or dignity to escape the present tax?
Many Chinese don't consider it as a shame even it broke the law and regulations.

Many migrant workers had the obligation to hand in 1/3 of monthly salary for retirement pension by themselves and companies according to the regulation. They and their companies would suffer a large sum of fine if they didn't pay the income Fee (or national compulsory retirement pension insurance)
However, they enjoy zero retirement pension after retired because they don't have local "Hukou" according to the same regulation.
It was a famous case in Shenzhen, Guangdong province, in 2009. The regulation was made and passed by Guangdong provincial government.
Of course migrant workers don't have the right to express opinions during the regulation making. Almost all of them didn't know the details of that regulation until they were retired.
Many migrant workers complained that government officials knew that migrant workers wouldn't get retirement pension, why did they force migrant workers to hand in more than as much as 1/3 monthly salary a month?   No answer! No justice!
The media can show only sympathy too.

Government employee handed zero income Fee for retirement fund.
Managers in companies have the obligation to hand in income Fee as much as more than 1/3 of monthly salary for retirement pension by themselves and companies. However, After retired, government employee would enjoy 4 or 5 times of retirement pension of managers in SOE from the same account.
(How did media know this? Many entrepreneur are city council members and National Congress members. They have ever asked to change the regulations. Media began to know some exact sums of retirement pension of government employee though the regulations are not changed yet so far.)
These regulations was made by government employee. Managers and Employee in companies can only follow these regulations.

Many Chinese and companies, including central government-own companies (or State-own enterprise, or SOE) escape tax in practice.
Most private-own companies escape or partly escape the present income Fee in practice around China.

In many cases, the government leaders are the first guy to break the laws and rules made by themselves. Though China vow to build a law-ruling society, in practice, China is still a man-ruling society.
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Post time 2011-6-19 00:17:34 |Display all floors
Did government employee and official enjoy so much before 2000?
No.

Many university graduates prefer a job in companies.

However, after the privatization of local government-own companies, especially after the social welfare reform (including housing reform, education reform, healthcare reform.....) . ....Jobs in government are the best jobs now.

Why?

Because the reform cut off social welfare from ordinary Chinese and increase the social welfare for government officials.

So is the reform from the late 1990 a success or a failure?

Even government acknowledged some of them totally failure like healthcare reform (the minister was arrested too because of corruption.), or partly failure,.....or ....

[ Last edited by 468259058 at 2011-6-19 12:19 AM ]
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