Author: hopkinWFG

south korean's messed up history TV show [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2011-1-8 17:21:49 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2011-1-8 11:54


So why do you want to spark disputes?

Methinks Chinese history as told by the current bunch of 'hstoriographers' is phucked up0 enough not to interest even the Chinese, olet alone the rest o ...



indeed sorry for my poor english command i was saying ' i am not trying to condem SK nor causing any disputes between SK and China'

Yes you may be right china history is not even popular among we chinese ? perhaps so ? but as a southern chinese myself i'll have recently grown interest in chinese history after looking at japanese , koreans and mongolians. and in my opinion these are actually linked in tight and relates to ancient "china" . let alone ancient scripts which was passed down and burned by ancient emperors i guess chinese history really takes into lots of homework and considerations and it is hard to apprehend.

My stand is since alot of  korean's history that could be traced down via ancient chinese records if their conscious is clear of not "stealing china's northeastern manchuria thru historical means" be working hand in hand together with the chinese?

i am pretty sure that the people knows alot about chinese bulling or being proud of their history and yes we treasure it i guess and i am sure if the koreans did too ! but why let these ancient subjects tailored to be rough and edgy resulting into "cold war" where we could just learn and explore  new heights together ?


Ancient subjects are inspiring learny and spritual but why let it be subjects of modernised hatred, discriminate and repulse against one's who shares immensely?

i guess i didnt hear the greeks disputes turkey over ancient records of Troy?
i guess i didnt hear the iranian disputes claims on isreal over ancient records during the great persian empire?
i guess i have never heard of the scandinavians having problems with the english people?

[ Last edited by hopkinWFG at 2011-1-8 05:26 PM ]

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Post time 2011-1-9 00:19:55 |Display all floors
Hey, this is interesting stuff, thanks louzhu!

I've had a quick look online and it looks like your view of this is a bit one-sided.  Apparently the dispute started because China's 'Northeast History Project' research claimed that the Koguryo kingdom (which is generally seen as a Korean kingdom) was part of China.  So from the Korean government or academic point of view they could be defending Korean territory from Chinese claims.  Try looking at wikipedia entries on 'Goguryeo controversies' and 'Northeast Project of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences'.

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Post time 2011-1-9 00:25:38 |Display all floors
"Ancient subjects are inspiring learny and spritual but why let it be subjects of modernised hatred, discriminate and repulse against one's who shares immensely? "

The problem is that modern governments and nations draw on history for validation.  In fact the world is full of examples of ancient history being politicised.  As I mentioned, both Chinese and Korean nationalist interests are involved in this dispute.  Other examples: sometimes Chinese people have claimed that the Japanese all came from China- obviously many Japanese people are unhappy about this idea.  Some Chinese people call Genghis Khan a 'national hero of China', which nationalist Mongolians are also unhappy about (because he happens to be their national hero).  There are also lots of examples unrelated to China.

[ Last edited by thepeop at 2011-1-9 12:33 AM ]

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Post time 2011-1-9 01:00:20 |Display all floors
Originally posted by thepeop at 2011-1-9 00:25
"Ancient subjects are inspiring learny and spritual but why let it be subjects of modernised hatred, discriminate and repulse against one's who shares immensely? "

The problem is that  ...



Hi ... i guess if so true then one must study entire on what china is all about ! china is not about pure han ethnicity i would say even han ethnicity is not pure blooded !

so what is exactly china? i would say china only existed from the eyes of foreigners , china in ancient text didnt even  recongised itself as china until the fall of Qing.  what made up of todays china are individual ethnicites from various parts of today's china.

when china is prompting its north eastern project on it's culture about balhae, koruyeo and from as early as chosen (dongyi) in my opinion south koreans should know that ancient balhae and koruyeo is now inside china ! yes no doubt in ancient records to be exact balhae and koruyeo does not exactly relates to "china"  but it is not a pure korean entity too. Balhae is a kingdom of mixture jurchens and early "chosen" or "korean" so was koruyeo having a mix of people from shangdong till shenyang or even larger.

South korea should understand China's needs to promote culture identies for minor ethnic groups such as : Manchurians,Chosen and inner mongolians xinjiang and tibet .....to be fair it is not just Han and Hans .
I'll  say that China has the rights to promote these history into China but China should have adopted the rights open concept of accepting  South koreans having to look into it and also have a fair share on their cultures acknowledgement being koreans for their own agenda.

For what i think what the South are doing is just not healthy and it is just unwise. IMO

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Post time 2011-1-9 01:32:58 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2011-1-8 22:36
You are bringing up very tricky historic issues - Manchuria, Korean history, Mongolian history etc. Do you think these peoples like to be lectured to about their own history by Chinese?

If I wa ...



seneca thanks for the direct answer on your views. i hope you could look more into china's ancient history. i hope your not going to say that Chinese is han people. and i hope your not going to tell me about the theory of "china proper" which was proposed by a westerner who has little insight on chinese history.  

i have no intention of saying that the chinese should lecture on koreans about their own history and i totally disagree on your quote.

South korea should know that China has ethnic groups which relates to pre korean history. and the fact that china has become part of their pre korean territory. They should have also remained open on it having to promote it for its own ethnicities.

from what i felt  SK  today is just being pure arrogant and absurd as a strong advanced country and they had also projected a very darn stand off towards its neighbouring country on such programme being aired nation wide.

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Post time 2011-1-9 12:15:24 |Display all floors
I agree with you about 'China' being a modern nation- although you could, for example, call the Song dynasty a 'Chinese empire'.  As the Korean historians noticed, the problem comes when you start calling someone like Yue Fei a 'national hero' when he wouldn't even understand the meaning of 'national'.

"South korea should understand China's needs to promote culture identies for minor ethnic groups such as : Manchurians,Chosen and inner mongolians xinjiang and tibet .....to be fair it is not just Han and Hans .
I'll  say that China has the rights to promote these history into China but China should have adopted the rights open concept of accepting  South koreans having to look into it and also have a fair share on their cultures acknowledgement being koreans for their own agenda."

The problem is I don't think the Chinese presentation is saying 'here's the story of these people, who have their own unique history and culture'.  The whole point seems to be political- it's saying that 'these people are part of Chinese history'-'they are Chinese people'.  The political intention is obviously to use history to support the claim that China is indivisible and that minority nationalism is unacceptable.  As you suggested, this way of using history is ahistorical.  And as both the Chinese and Korean governments (north and south) want to encourage nationalism, they both use the same ahistorical approach- saying that Korygyo is either 'Chinese' or 'Korean'.

I agree that history shouldn't be so political- but I think you need to recognise that the problem comes from both sides here.

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Post time 2011-1-9 14:20:53 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2011-1-9 12:41



Be my guest. I knew this thread was soon going to touch upon the ancient Koryo story. China provoked the Koreans a few years earlier by kidnapping Korean history over graves it wants the UNES ...




I would certainly understand from korean point of view if China were to abduct the whole history of koruyeo as being chinese and that would be totally absurd too . But i wont say none to China if they were to claim in respect from korean point of view as well that China should also have the rights to do it for their Northeastern people living in manchuria. and that what makes China to be it is now.

If you were to say that china = han then you are adpoting the western idea of "china proper" which is a case of engaging the chinese world into small piece. William winterbotham suggested the term used to disengage Qing dynasty (China) i guess without knowing the fact that there are still lots of unrelated non Hans inside "china proper" .

I might not say directly that as a southern chinese myself in my beliefs? or at any point would have relations with today's koreans..cause i know that being a Southerner is different from Notherners. A Northern Chinese would have rights to say about relations with koruyeo and balhae or Manchus and Kithans.

it is certain that many unhappy nationalist like people from outer mongolia, koreans (penisular), Vietnam , tibetians (refugee seekers in india) and turkey would express their feelings too if proper address of history studies is not being carried out with respect at countries invloved.

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