Author: antimatter

@@China lacks thrust vectoring jet engine, now interest in Russian 117 Engines@@ [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2010-12-11 01:00:17 |Display all floors

what that means afterall...

Originally posted by antimatter at 2010-12-8 13:22
But most likely Russians will not  individual 117S engines to China. Instead it will force China to buy SU-35 as a whole for 40 planes.

If China wants thrust vectoring engine, then it needs to  ...


it means the anglos race afterall is more evil than good to destroy certain races on this planet earth  

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Post time 2010-12-11 04:16:34 |Display all floors
Originally posted by antimatter at 2010-12-10 08:55
Ha, thrust vectoring not useful??  that's pure sour grape statement.

F-22 has thrust vectoring engine!

thrust vectoring gives the plane high maneuverbility to dodge incoming missiles.   its a ...
.

try thrust vector your plane anywhere above 300 mph and see what happens. the g force from the huge turn velocity would make your blood boil and it would tare your heart apart if it won't have your plane disintegrate into a million pieces first.

whether or not thrust vectoring is an efficient feature is all about physics. i mean there are just things that you just can't force nature to do and thrust vectoring is one of those things. thrust vectoring works only in low altitude low speed MiG-15 K-8 kartom speeds so if you can't thrust vector at mach 1 or 2, what use is it? also, since Korean war style dawg-fighting tactics having went the way of the doodle bird, who needs thrust vector?

Since the Korean war, to date, I have not seen a one-on-one aerial dawg fight, not even during the Vietnam war, and it certainly won't be needed in a time and era of beyond visual range fire and forget sure kill aam's such as the sd-10 and its other counterparts in the world. like the already out-of-favor fads of the variable geometric swept wing of the 70's and 80's, thrust vectoring, even stealth, is a science that will go the wayside and mark my words: unmanned, cheap, dime a dozen, kamakaze style disposable-chopstick-like fighters operated/manned by the science of virtual reality by aircombat style freaks from the safety of hundreds of miles away, not $200 million per sd-10 shot F-22's, is where the future is at.

all the demonstrations you see done by russian pilots in their su-27's are all low altitude low subsonic practically near take off landing speeds. any faster than that, you mind as well be a jump jet. Yes, there is a reason why the eu-2000 typhoon, the french rafael, the mirage-4000, the swiss gripen, the panava tornado, the f-14,15, 16, 18 have all never adopted thrust vectoring.

bottom line: thrust vectoring is not that big of a deal. i mean it's just a measure above the idea of the british jump jet. it's all about harnessing the jet's exhaust to deflect at a certain angle onew wish. the jump jet had been doing that for near 50 years.



[ Last edited by edisonone at 2010-12-10 12:23 PM ]
Putin's a killer. This was the claim made by Fox News journalist; Bill O'Reilly during his recent interview with Donald Trump. Trump's reply came in the form of a simple question. What, you think our country's so innocent?

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Post time 2010-12-12 02:19:53 |Display all floors
Originally posted by antimatter at 2010-12-8 13:22
But most likely Russians will not  individual 117S engines to China. Instead it will force China to buy SU-35 as a whole for 40 planes.

If China wants thrust vectoring engine, then it needs to  ...



[size=-2]

Russia’s military bonanza is over
Jeremy Page

A year after the collapse of the Soviet Union, a cash-strapped Kremlin began ing China a chunk of its vast military arsenal, including the pride of the Russian air force, the Sukhoi-27 fighter jet. For the next 15 years, Russia was China’s biggest arms supplier, providing $20 billion to $30 billion of fighters, destroyers, submarines, tanks and missiles. It even sold Beijing a license to make the Su-27 fighter jet—with imported Russian parts. Today, Russia’s military bonanza is over, and China’s is just beginning.

After decades, China has reached a tipping point: It now can produce many of its own advanced weapons—including high-tech fighter jets like the Su-27—and is on the verge of building an aircraft carrier. Not only have Chinese engineers cloned the prized Su-27’s avionics and radar but they are fitting it with the last piece in the technological puzzle, a Chinese jet engine. In the past two years, Beijing hasn’t placed a major order from Moscow.

Now, China is starting to export much of this weaponry, undercutting Russia in the developing world, and potentially altering the military balance in several of the world’s flash points. This epochal turnaround was palpable in the Russian pavilion at November’s Airshow China in the southern city of Zhuhai. Russia used to be the star of this show, wowing visitors with its “Russian Knights” aerobatic team, showing off fighters, helicopters and cargo planes, and sealing multibillion dollar deals on the sidelines. This year, it didn’t bring a single real aircraft—only a handful of plastic miniatures, tended by a few dozen bored sales staff.

China, by contrast, laid on its biggest commercial display of military technology—almost all based on Russian know-how. The star guests were the “Sherdils,” a Pakistani aerobatics team flying fighter jets that are Russian in origin but are now being produced by Pakistan and China. “We used to be the senior partner in this relationship—now we’re the junior one,” said Ruslan Pukhov, of the Russian Defence Ministry’s Public Advisory Council, a civilian advisory body to the military.

China’s military muscle still lags far behind that of the US, by far the world’s largest weapons manufacturer and exporter. China accounted for 2% of global arms transfers between 2005-2009, putting it in ninth place among exporters, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI). But no other Asian country has sought to project military power—and had the indigenous capability to do so—since Japan’s defeat in 1945. China’s rapid mastery of Russian technology raises questions about US co-operation with the civilian faces of Chinese arms makers.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Kremlin was desperate for hard currency. In 1992, China became the first country outside the former Soviet Union to buy the Su-27, paying $1 billion for 24. Three years later, China unveiled its own version of the fighter jet—the J-11B—on state television. “When the license was sold, everyone knew they would do this. It was just a risk that was taken,” said Vassily Kashin, a Russian expert on the Chinese military. “At that time it was a question of survival.” The J-11B looked almost identical to the Su-27, but China said it was 90% indigenous and included more advanced Chinese avionics and radars. Only the engine was still Russian, China said.

The J-11B presented Russia with a stark choice—to continue ing China weapons, and risk having them cloned, too, or to stop, and miss out on its still lucrative market. Russia’s initial response was to suspend talks on ing China the Su-33, a fighter with folding wings that can be used on aircraft carriers. Since then, however, it has re-opened negotiations on the Su-33, although it rejected China’s offer to buy just two, and insisted on a larger order.

In private, however, Russian officials say they worry that China is about to start mass producing and exporting advanced fighters—without Russian help. China bought $16 billion worth of Russian arms between 2001 and 2008—40% of Russia’s sales. Photographs published recently on Chinese military websites appear to show engines fitted on the J-11B and a modified version—called the J-15—for use on aircraft carriers.

At last year’s Dubai Air Show, China demonstrated its L-15 trainer jet for the first time. In June, China made its debut at the Eurosatory arms fair in France. In July, China demonstrated the JF-17—the fighter developed with Pakistan—for the first time overseas at the Farnborough Airshow in Britain. China also had one of the biggest pavilions at an arms fair in Capetown in September.

“They’re showing up at arms fairs they’ve never been to before,” said Siemon T. Wezeman, an arms trade expert at SIPRI. “Whereas 15 years ago they had nothing really, now they’re offering reasonable technology at a reasonable price.” China is generating particular interest among developing countries, especially with the relatively cheap JF-17 fighter with a Russian engine. The Kremlin has approved the re-export of the engine to Pakistan, as it has no arms business there. But it was enraged last year when Azerbaijan, an ex-Soviet republic, began talks on buying JF-17s, according to people familiar with the situation. Also last year, China’s JF-17s and Russia’s MiG-29s competed in a tender from Myanmar, which eventually chose the Russians, but paid less than they wanted.

This year, both entered a tender from Egypt, with China offering the JF-17 for $10 million less than Russia’s $30 million MiG-29. That prompted Mikhail Pogosyan, who heads Sukhoi and the company that makes MiGs, to suggest that the Kremlin stop ing China the Russian engines for the JF-17. The Kremlin hasn’t done that yet, but Russian officials have suggested privately taking legal action if China exports more advanced jets like the J-11B. Other potential buyers of China’s JF-17 fighter jet include Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Venezuela, Nigeria, Morocco and Turkey. In the past, China has also sold fighters to Sudan. — The Wall Street Journal

   Flash: http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=65693  


Putin's a killer. This was the claim made by Fox News journalist; Bill O'Reilly during his recent interview with Donald Trump. Trump's reply came in the form of a simple question. What, you think our country's so innocent?

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Post time 2010-12-12 02:37:13 |Display all floors
Originally posted by antimatter at 2010-12-8 13:22
But most likely Russians will not  individual 117S engines to China. Instead it will force China to buy SU-35 as a whole for 40 planes.

If China wants thrust vectoring engine, then it needs to  ...




官方 中国歼11B战机 有自己技术 非苏27仿制品

[size=-2]

http://www.sina.com.cn  2010年12月11日 10:16  世界新闻报
中国空军已经批量列装国产歼11B多用途战机 中国空军已经批量列装国产歼11B多用途战机

  苏霍伊总裁公开辟谣,歼-10更显“中国特色”

  本报记者/魏东旭

  在不久前的珠海航展上,一批达到国际先进水平的国产战斗机、教练机闪亮登场,显示了“中国制造”在军用飞机领域的突破和(MOD)展。但美国《华尔街日报》12月7日却刊(MOD)题为《“反向开(MOD)”助中国战机一飞冲天》的文章,认为中国在该领域取得进步源于对俄制战机的模仿。对于许多业内专家来说,这种“只见树木,不见森林”的观点实在让人跌破眼镜。

  歼-11并非简单的模仿

  《华尔街日报》的文章称,“苏联解体一年后,极度缺钱的克里姆林宫开始向中国销售其庞大的武器库,包括俄罗斯空军的骄傲──苏-27战斗机。” 按照该报的说法,中国一直从俄罗斯进口武器并对这些武器进行“反向开(MOD)”,(MOD)展出了歼-11B战斗机,“中国工程师不光‘克隆’出苏-27的航空电子设备和雷达,还安装了最后一个零件——中国产喷气式引擎”。显然,西方将中国的歼-11B战斗机简单认定为俄制苏-27的仿制品。这种以偏概全的说法不可避免地遭到了多方驳斥。

  事实上,一些西方军事媒体同样认为歼-11B并非苏-27的仿制品。澳大利亚《空军力量》杂志日前就披露了中国歼-11B型战斗机的最新研(MOD)动态,并称其与苏-27SK战斗机有很多不同点,不能单纯将其看作是苏-27SK的“克隆机”。文章指出,歼-11B型的机身和引擎与苏-27SK相似,但歼-11B型的一些系统与苏-27SK完全不同,在衍射平显、红外搜索跟踪系统和玻璃化座舱等方面都显示出独特设计。

  更权威的说法来自苏-27的“娘家”。早在几年前,俄罗斯苏霍伊公司总裁米哈伊尔·波戈相就曾表示,某些媒体有关中方仿造苏霍伊战机的说法“纯属外行”,因为早在1996年俄方就向中方出售了苏-27SK的知识产权。波戈相强调,俄罗斯官方也从来没有对中方提出过“仿造质疑”,“我们坚信中方制造的战机含有自己的技术成分和国产部件。美国等‘专家’也许想在俄方售给中方的知识产权上做文章。我希望我们的中国同行坚定自己的立场,不要被挑拨离间所左右。”

  由此可见,歼-11B虽与苏-27系列在外形上很相像,但确实是有中国血统的新式战斗机,而西方用其大做文章,很可能存有挑起中俄军贸冲突的不良居心。

  全新设计已获国际认可

  如果说歼-11B战斗机仍有苏制(俄制)装备的影子,那么歼-10则是“中国设计”的最直接体现。

  歼-10战机属多用途、单引擎、单座、战术战斗机,造型及材质新颖,空中隐蔽性强。香港《中国评论》此前的报道指出,歼-10战斗机采用了独特的前置可控鸭翼加大三角翼的鸭式气动布局结构,飞机的机身线条流畅,采用了机身融合翼技术。另据美国《航空周刊》近日披露,中国已将歼-10B型战机的进气口改为椭圆形,并正在完善为其配套的WS-10A型(MOD)动机;同时,歼-10战机子系统的作战能力也在不断提升,中国正在研(MOD)新一代有源电子扫描阵雷达,可替换飞机当前的机械扫描阵雷达。报道引述一名中国设计师的话说:“有源电子扫描阵雷达对任何战机来说都是一种重要的进步,可大幅提高可靠度和雷达性能。”

  除了歼-10 ,具有良好出口前景的“枭龙”轻型战斗机、L-15“猎鹰”高级教练机和K-8教练机同样体现着“中国制造”和“中国设计”的国际吸引力。据《斯里兰卡卫报》12月7日报道,11月27日至30日巴基斯坦总统扎尔达里出访斯里兰卡期间,双方探讨了双边军事合作问题,巴基斯坦外交部长库雷希对随行记者透露,斯方对中巴联合研制的“哈立德”主战坦克和JF-17 “雷电”(枭龙)战斗机都很感兴趣。由此可见,中国设计、制造的战斗机已积累了良好的声誉,国际竞争力与日俱增。

  中国航空工业更加自信

  随着综合国力的不断提升,中国航空工业取得的成绩也日益突出。当年,在前苏联的技术援助下,中国造出了歼-6,实现了先进战斗机领域“零的突破”。随后的歼-7战斗机虽然是对米格-21的模仿,但完全是中国航空业自力更生的结晶。从歼-8战斗机开始,中国进行了更多新的尝试,歼-10、“飞豹”、“枭龙”等型号的出现,标志着中国在先进战斗机研(MOD)领域完成了“华丽转身”,实现了自主设计和自主制造的重大突破。

  当前,与美欧和俄罗斯研(MOD)的第四代、第五代战斗机相比,中国战斗机仍属后起之秀,还需要进一步完善。但在战斗机整体设计、机载设备以及航空(MOD)动机领域,“中国制造”的飞跃式进步却是有目共睹的。人们有理由相信,中国的航空工业未来必将以更加自信的姿态追赶国际先进水平。

Putin's a killer. This was the claim made by Fox News journalist; Bill O'Reilly during his recent interview with Donald Trump. Trump's reply came in the form of a simple question. What, you think our country's so innocent?

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Post time 2010-12-13 14:22:36 |Display all floors

Reply #9 edisonone's post

UAV are the trend of the future......

.......it the vehicle can be controlled by an encrypted data transfer system!
BATTLE OF THE AIRWAVES next game, huh?

hmmmmm

cheerios!

Green DRagon
Game Master

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Post time 2010-12-15 23:44:55 |Display all floors
Originally posted by greendragon at 2010-12-12 22:22
UAV are the trend of the future...... hmmmmm
.


Wow!  This is going to hurt "BIG TIME", Mr. Fumanchu!!!   

Yes! Damn those Russians, just a week after they've announced relaxation on engine technology transfers (i.e., Russian 117S engine) to those darn Chin*mans , those darned Chin*mans practically picked up on the technology overnight and they come up with this: "Aa "XXJ" compatible, 2nd Generation powerplant -- the WS10 B Taihung jet engine which, supposedly, have a thrust that's even greater than that of the Pratt and Whitney F119-100."

中国四代(MOD)动机试制完毕交付使用:用三维矢量喷管
Flash: http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_5002524d010176cp.html?tj=1
[Size=-4](China finished fourth generation prototype engine delivered: three dimensional vector nozzle)
Pretty cool I'd say for Chinese engine developers and for China.

But, I still am not one that is of the thrust vector wagon train, so excuses please. However, if the saying "人有我有" is the mentality of it, then why not ;P is what I have to say.

Then again, this WS10 B Taihung is supposedly geared only for the XXJ/J-14...  To power the J-11B/J-13 & 15 & the J-10's there are the following:

帅!装上太行(MOD)动机的歼-11B低空掠过
Flash: http://club.mil.news.sina.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=297711

"Eat Your Heart Out, Mr. Antimatter"!!!!


Putin's a killer. This was the claim made by Fox News journalist; Bill O'Reilly during his recent interview with Donald Trump. Trump's reply came in the form of a simple question. What, you think our country's so innocent?

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