Author: UYA

World Peace? Doable? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2009-11-20 23:28:50 |Display all floors
Originally posted by esoteriksky at 2009-11-19 10:56
It seems you have no faith in the evolution of man,
In primitive times it was the strongest man with a sword who could provide victories on the battlefield that were our most revered leaders.
Then most countries were lead by priests in theocratic governments
but most modern nations have evolved past this...


It's true that religions, societies, and cultures evolve very quickly. Just as an industry can evolve quickly to meet new market demands. Man hasn't changed. He's still the smartest monkey, just as before.

Our aggression is one of the things we evolved. It has made us successful. Our aggression killed off our rivals, they're dead now. "Evolve or die", mother nature always says. We listened. Evolution requires that you out-compete all rivals. In our case, as in the case of most animals, that required bloody aggression. The nice guys didn't prosper, we did.

Water can live in the sea, as man can live in the wild. Water can live in a famous brand bottle, and man can live in a city. Is the bottle the water's natural environment? We evolved in the cave, not the city. That is the environment that shaped our nature.

There was a time when water was water. Then marketing evolved new ways to package, hype, and present water. This highly evolved marketing can sell water at 2 USD per 500ml. Times have changed, marketing has evolved, water is still water.

We think ourselves so modern and advanced. Not at all like the animals. What will happen if we drop 1000 small kids on an island with only their nature to guide them? Without the influence of culture, religion, and society, you'd get a view of what human nature really is. Lets ensure that resources are easy to get, but limited. So that 1000 kids can live comfortably, but 1000 adults would have to be a bit careful with their resources in order to survive. Do you think all will be divided equally by common agreement? Will they work together and build wonders such as on Easter Island? When the strongest men take the most food, weapons, and many women as their own, will the weaker ones fight for what's left? The Easter Islanders destroyed themselves in a series of especially desperate blood baths. This question reminds me of Lord of the Flies. In that examination of human nature we saw a very realistic shift as everyone left the civil camp to join the warlike camp.

If our society dies cats will go into the wild and they will become feral, their nature is still alive and they will do just fine living a violent life in the wild. If our society dies dogs will go into the wild and they will become feral, their nature is still alive and they will do just fine living a violent life in the wild. The same is true of man. If this were not true, then man would find it impossible to live once separated from his society and it's book of rules.

UYA asked, "Do you think "all" life is "aggressive"?  


Well, in a way, yes. Life seeks resources with which to prosper. We typically think of aggression in terms of punching someone in the mouth and taking their gold or their woman, but some life has no fist, no gold, and no woman. That doesn't stop them from being aggressive. If you need the light to live, and so do I, it is highly aggressive behavior for one of us to shoot toward the sky specifically for the purpose of placing the other in shadow.

Most life is aggressive in the terms we most commonly think of. Even the cutest little bunny rabbits-fight for mates, housing, and other resources. However, violent aggression is no more pure than other forms.

Kittens think pretend-fighting is fun because mother nature is encouraging them to practice their kungfu to prepare for the painful battles they may face later. If you want to see the truth of our nature. Take a look at little 5 year old boys. Even if we encourage them to be kind and gentle, they still tend towards pulling the legs off of insects. If bugs screamed "for the love of god please NOOOOO!" The little boys would love this sport all the more.

In spite of growing up in a gentle environment, cats still feel compelled to kill the bird if they ever get the chance. Boys still pull the legs off of insects. The tiger is an ultra advanced species, no less evolved than humans. It's aggression is an advantage. The gorrila's aggression level is lower, but it is also necessary and aggression ensures his quality and survival. The same is true for us.

Animals sometimes flurish so well that they exhaust their own environment. We are not the first to do this. Rabbits and lemmings do it all the time. Our technology poses another problem. It is incompatible with our nature.  If you give monkeys weapons of mass destruction, don't count on a good result. If you give us weapons of mass destruction, wait.. I already said that.
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Post time 2009-11-21 08:48:05 |Display all floors
Originally posted by Morgezuma at 2009-11-20 23:28


It's true that religions, societies, and cultures evolve very quickly. Just as an industry can evolve quickly to meet new market demands. Man hasn't changed. He's still the smartest monkey, jus ...


I see your point.

Here is another question:

If you put 2 people "side by side" in different cages and you give one all the food and water they could want......
The other NOTHING......
Would the one who has all the food and water share with the one who doesn't?
Would one watch the other die a slow death and not care?

I think not!
We as "humans" are "social beings". We need others in order to thrive and survive. This is how we got out of the "caves" and made cities, culture and civilizations. As "intelligent beings" we see the wisdom of banding together for the purpose of survival.

This is what separates us from other life.

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Post time 2009-11-21 08:59:03 |Display all floors
Originally posted by manoj10 at 2009-11-18 21:41
Peace is an illusion


Coming from a religious point of view...
I agree.
Without "religion" we would be led to believe that "peace" is not obtainable without it.

HOWEVER

"peace" is something we all strive for.....
In our home....
In our life.....
In the world around us....

ALL the problems and strife in our life and the world are caused by things that "WE" made.....

RELIGION, COUNTRIES AND A MONEY DRIVEN SOCIETY.

Without these things......
There would be "peace".

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Post time 2009-11-21 12:37:58 |Display all floors
Originally posted by UYA at 2009-11-21 08:48
If you put 2 people "side by side" in different cages and you give one all the food and water they could want..... ....Would one watch the other die a slow death and not care?


You are right that we are social creatures. And just as apes we have a behavioral disposition for kinship so that if we feel secure and able to help the less fortunate ones who are near us, we often do that. We do, and apes do.

An ape in a cage next to a foodless dog will feed the dog. However, this requires that the ape grew up in an artificial environment where most animals are civil. That's how we grew up too, so if we are near a hungry dog, we often feed him, just as an ape would do. The question is, what would man do if he environment was not artificial? Would he be so kind and giving in other circumstances? If yes, then he is a truly angelic animal. Lets consider:

We wake up in a jungle. Our cage is made of vines and sticks. It's impossible to judge the strength of those vines and sticks. They may be invincible, or they may be fragile, it's unknown. Next to us is an unknown animal species we've never seen. It makes strange sounds we've never heard, and it has VERY long claws. If just like an ape, we have no reason to feel this is some sort of test, we will be most comfortable at the FAR side of our cage and we won't take our eyes off that strange creature. We will not wait until it is hungry and feed it with pitty, we will toss food at it right away in hopes of reducing it's aggression level towards us -- just as we would do to an animal we know such as the tiger or bear. If it will not eat the food we throw at it and it licks the vines and sticks that are the barrier between us, I think we will become extremely stressed about this creatures potential danger to us. If I find a spear in my side of the cage, I'm sure I'll stab the creature in it's sleep. It seems reasonable to me. If your warm heart extends to alien creatures with long claws, you are far more gentle and trusting than I.

You and I might feed a hungry dog in the city, but we are less likely to offer food to wolves in the countryside. The majority of people are kind to obedient dogs but we fear wolves and have killed them to near extinction.

You make a point that we are likely to feed the hungry person in the cell next to us. Apparently this requires that he is close to us. As you say, we have social needs and it is our primitive nature to make friends and alliances just like apes. However, while I may give up to half of my resources to someone near to me, something in my nature prevents me from caring so much about those that are geographically or socio-economically far away. Out of sight, out of mind you know. An example would be the wealthy segment of the world which is currently sitting in a cage that is sufficiently aloof so that we will stuff our faces with too much food while others die slow of starvation.
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Post time 2009-11-21 21:14:14 |Display all floors
Originally posted by Morgezuma at 2009-11-21 12:37


You are right that we are social creatures. And just as apes we have a behavioral disposition for kinship so that if we feel secure and able to help the less fortunate ones who are near us, we  ...


Her physique resembles a man's. No wonder their men are going for our beautiful, demure and womanly-looking Chinese girls.

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Post time 2009-11-22 00:04:20 |Display all floors
I agree that Paris Hilton is a horror inside and out.

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Post time 2009-11-22 20:19:19 |Display all floors

The West MUST be defeated.

That's the first condition.

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