Author: mollyshan

Tibet Facts and Figures! [Copy link] 中文

Post time 2009-3-6 21:31:45 |Display all floors
Reminder: Author is prohibited or removed, and content is automatically blocked
Don't harmonize me

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2009-3-6 21:46:55 |Display all floors
Originally posted by iamnaive at 2009-3-6 21:31
There are always many ways to convince people:


-  you can throw statistics on them (produced by the people who want to sell the truth)

- you can ease travel restrictions on foreigners going ...



Another way is to get CNN and its kraut lackeys to distort reality.

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 4

Post time 2009-3-6 22:01:29 |Display all floors
Originally posted by iamnaive at 2009-3-6 21:31
There are always many ways to convince people:


-  you can throw statistics on them (produced by the people who want to sell the truth)

- you can ease travel restrictions on foreigners going ...


Have you ever seen the present China? Do you have any idea where Tibet is? Ignorant arrogance! You are not willing to admit the great changes during the 50 years of deplomatic reform. Instead you advocate the freedom of Tibet. Serfs had no freedom in old Tibet under the rule of Dalai Lama, angel in your eyes. You have no right to say freedom to the tibetans. Only facts speak themselves. What does freedom mean in your country? Work as slaves, no pay or die from hunger or torture?

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 4

Post time 2009-3-31 17:39:16 |Display all floors

A worthy response

This reply from a less blinkered commenter on an article in The Guardian:

The Chinese argument has been specious. The Chinese pretend that Tibet had been part of the Chinese empire from the time of the short-lived Yuan (Mongol) dynasty (1279-1368). The fact of history is that the Mongols overran and ruled both China and Tibet and brought both under subjection to Mongol authority, wielded from Beijing. That did not make Tibet part of a ‘Chinese empire because the empire at that time was Mongol and not Chinese. The present Chinese contention flies in the face of facts but the Chinese do not suffer history to come in their way.
Then, they remind the world that the Qing dynasty (1644-1911) established a protectorate over Tibet in the 1720s. During the period from 1728 to 1911 Chinese ‘authority in Tibet was personified by a Han commissioner, called an amban, which may be translated as some kind of undefined representative. The Chinese pretend that the amban was more or less ‘governor-general while the Tibetans largely ignored the Chinese resident and went about their lives in complete disregard of his presence in Lhasa. It is a fact of history, though, that there was an unbroken line of Chinese ambans in Lhasa from 1728 to 1911. (See Luciao Petech, China and Tibet in the early 18th century: history of the establishment of Chinese protectorate in Tibet, Leiden, E.J. Brill, 1972.) The actual power of the amban at a given time depended on the personality equations between the amban, the Dalai Lama, and the regent, especially during the minority of a Dalai Lama. There was nothing axiomatic about the status and powers of the amban. Over extended periods the presence of the amban was severely ignored by the Tibetans, who, however, never asked any amban to leave except the last one in 1912. On that occasion, after revolution in China (1911), the Chinese garrison in Lhasa (they had been sent across Yunnan and Szechwan and Eastern Tibet in the course of 1910-1912) and its commanders and the amban were in mortal danger of losing their lives at the hands of the resurgent Tibetans and, at British intercession, were allowed to be evacuated via British India and Calcutta and sent by ship to China, terminating Chinese presence in Tibet completely.
1912-1949 was a period of de facto independence for Tibet. (See Melvyn C. Goldstein, A history of modern Tibet, 1913-1951: the demise of the Lamaist state, University of California Press, 1989.) During that period China was hardly on its feet and witnessed disturbed conditions throughout, first under several contenders like Yuan Shi-kai (who even hoped to be emperor) and Sun Yat-sen and later on between the KMT and the CPC. In 1950 the CPC cut a long story short by ordering occupation of Tibet by the PLA, whom the Tibetans were in no position to resist in any case. Now, if this means that Tibet has ‘historically been a part of China since the Yuan dynasty, this is because the Chinese have a blinkered view of history.
V.C. Bhutani, Delhi, India, March 31 2009, 1050 IST

Seems logical and well-researched. I think his point is well-taken, because so many Chinese can do more than spout the Party's rhetoric on Tibet without investigating further. The issue is not a black and white matter, and absurdities like 'serf's emancipation day' don't aid China's cause when trying to prsuade the rest of the world that they are on the right side of this argument.

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 4

Post time 2009-3-31 17:42:47 |Display all floors

iculie

" Only facts speak themselves."

True. I've been to Tibet and I can tell you that the facts don't correspond with the Chinese people's ideas as expressed on this forum.

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Gold Medal

Post time 2009-3-31 19:15:37 |Display all floors
Bhutani is a staunch China hater. How convenient to post his propaganda over here.

Here are two of his comment which clearly show that he has ulterior motives and is dreaming of a ‘Greater India’.

ーAny China-India boundary settlement must only be provisional until Tibet becomes independent.

It must be the object of India’s policy to exclude a hostile power from ruling Tibet. Our aim must be Tibet’s independence.

Mr. Bhutani’s idea is to create an Indian vassal state or to annex Tibet. It is ridiculous to even discuss about his "ideas" over here.

The OP of Bhutani’s nonsense must be a paid member of the clique.

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2009-3-31 19:27:06 |Display all floors
Originally posted by iculie at 2009-3-31 19:39
Over extended periods the presence of the amban was severely ignored by the Tbtans, who, however, never asked any amban to leave except the last one in 1912. On that occasion, after revolution in China (1911), the Chinese garrison in Lhsa (they had been sent across Ynnan and Szchwan and Eastern Tbt in the course of 1910-1912) and its commanders and the amban were in mortal danger of losing their lives at the hands of the resurgent Tbtans and, at British intercession, were allowed to be evacuated via British India and Calcutta and sent by ship to China, terminating Chinese presence in Tbt completely.


So those evil Brits helped the Chinese garrison and diplomats to safely return to China from Tbt, eh ?

First I've heard about that here, I wonder why Mengzhi and his other sino-nazis hadn't mentioned this ?
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

Use magic tools Report

You can't reply post until you log in Log in | register

BACK TO THE TOP
Contact us:Tel: (86)010-84883548, Email: blog@chinadaily.com.cn
Blog announcement:| We reserve the right, and you authorize us, to use content, including words, photos and videos, which you provide to our blog
platform, for non-profit purposes on China Daily media, comprising newspaper, website, iPad and other social media accounts.