Author: yuan_zcen

Divided Chinese map! [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2008-12-19 18:19:20 |Display all floors
Originally posted by augusten at 2008-12-19 12:47
you chose to ignore one important fact, that Tbetan leader accepted and pledge loyalty toward the central government since Yuan era, this continued through Qing, Ming, Nationalist government, even until under PRC in 1950s. The central governmmet need not to send army to Tbet, because it's an autonomous region under rule of the central government  ...


Can you please explain the difference between a protectorate and an autonomous region under rule of central government (of China)?

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Post time 2008-12-19 18:21:56 |Display all floors
Originally posted by augusten at 2008-12-19 17:37


This is largely different, stupid.

They are all from white-European tradition and the marriage were held just because to retain their fine status, not as a means to settle dispute, not even  ...


Augusten, I will try to tell you this in a friendly way as I guess medieval European history may not be your strong point.

There were many many instances of inter-marriage between royal families to avoid wars and/or to make/when making peace.

The medieval histories of France, England & Spain are testament to this.

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Post time 2008-12-19 18:23:37 |Display all floors
Originally posted by augusten at 2008-12-19 19:37
They are all from white-European tradition and the marriage were held just because to retain their fine status, not as a means to settle dispute, not even as a means to attain peace.

How do you know that ?
It seems, from your claims, that China married off their royal offspring to gain territory, whereas in Europe it was to maintain peace.

Originally posted by augusten at 2008-12-19 19:37
Just compare if your white ancestor came to Australia and then marry the local aborigines, you won't do it, simply because you think it will lower your social status. ...

Another irrelevancy to the silly and false claim of Northwest.

BTW many white settlers had aboriginal wives. Many "Aboriginals" today are in fact more European or Asian than they are Aboriginal.
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2008-12-19 18:25:27 |Display all floors
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Post time 2008-12-19 18:43:02 |Display all floors

Augusten

First, yes there was wars between China's mainland and Tbt/ Twn, so what? There's also peace which then they join the mainland government wholeheartedly without being forced by any military means.

Expand borders by force? A rude accussation.


Are your seriously telling me that the TWN indigenous people welcomed the main landers to their country? I seem to remember they were rather unhappy about that and indeed were rather successful initially in 'making their feelings known about this'.  The main landers didn't exactly go into TWN offering big fluffy welcome handshakes and the TWN people didn't offer them back. There was bloodshed.

[/quote]How if every Tbetan leaders since Yuan dinasty recognize Chinese rule over Tbet WHOLEHEARTEDLY? What do you call that?[/quote]

Wholeheartedly? TBT was a protectorate of K h a n/ M ongol Emp ire. It was also aware that if they said no to the Mon gols, they had no future. Their religion & K han's interest in that religion is what saved them from having no auto nomy over their way of life. But all of this does not mean it was a part of China's sov.ereign territory.

Chinese way of treating it's pheriperal territory is largely different from Europeans, maybe hard for you to understand.


I'd like to give you an example:

'The Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia (; ) was the majority ethnic-Czech protectorate which Na.zi Germany established in the central parts of Bohemia, Moravia and Czech Silesia. It was established on March 15, 1939 by proclamation of A.dolf H.itler from Prague Castle following the declaration of establishment of an in.d.ependent national Slovak state on 14 March 1939.  Bohemia and Moravia as well as the General Government were aut. onomous Nazi-administered territories which the Nazis considered part of "Greater Germany".

Are you telling me that Bohemia should now actually be part of German sove.reign territory?

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Post time 2008-12-19 19:06:46 |Display all floors
Originally posted by boring at 2008-12-19 18:43
Are your seriously telling me that the TWN indigenous people welcomed the main landers to their country? I seem to remember they were rather unhappy about that and indeed were rather successful initially in 'making their feelings known about this'.  The main landers didn't exactly go into TWN offering big fluffy welcome handshakes and the TWN people didn't offer them back. There was bloodshed.
...


The earliest mainland Chinese settled in TWN much earlier than Ming dinasty.

When and what bloodshed you mean that the natives Taiwanese resist mainland Chinese rule?

Wholeheartedly? TBT was a protectorate of K h a n/ M ongol Emp ire. It was also aware that if they said no to the Mon gols, they had no future. Their religion & K han's interest in that religion is what saved them from having no auto nomy over their way of life. But all of this does not mean it was a part of China's sov.ereign territory.


It's already 700 years since Tbtan pledge loyalty to the mainland central government and they continuously did so until 14th DL lured by C1A to revolt, the rule crossed Yuan, Ming, Qing, Nationalist government and event PRC. So you think China's rule is illegitimate? Why the 5th DL until 13rd DL accepted central government rule?

What is the basis for you to say "does not mean it was a part of China's sov.ereign territory"? Current international law accept China's rule over Tbet.

'The Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia (; ) was the majority ethnic-Czech protectorate which Na.zi Germany established in the central parts of Bohemia, Moravia and Czech Silesia. It was established on March 15, 1939 by proclamation of A.dolf H.itler from Prague Castle following the declaration of establishment of an in.d.ependent national Slovak state on 14 March 1939.  Bohemia and Moravia as well as the General Government were aut. onomous Nazi-administered territories which the Nazis considered part of "Greater Germany".

Are you telling me that Bohemia should now actually be part of German sove.reign territory?


I don't know and I don't like to intervene into others sovereignty, just that I know German expand their territory without the acceptance of the people they conquest. Maybe the German forced the territory to follow every German's demand and not internationally accepted.

Largely different from Tbet, China's rule already there even before today's modern states established.

Just one more question, for a balance. Why do you staunchly support Tbetan separatism? For pure human rights cause or because other reason?

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Post time 2008-12-19 19:08:11 |Display all floors
Originally posted by emucentral at 2008-12-19 18:23
BTW many white settlers had aboriginal wives. Many "Aboriginals" today are in fact more European or Asian than they are Aboriginal. ...


This is because the convicts mainly consist of males?

Or because the Europeans sincerely want to leave peacefully with the natives?

More likely to be the first.

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