Author: expatter

Can East really meet West in a forum? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2008-10-27 11:10:03 |Display all floors

Reply #21 zhiran's post

Look girls have mood swings....... women in australia have been given the extra point due to protests...

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Post time 2008-10-27 17:10:33 |Display all floors
I just hope we can sometimes just "step out of our roles" and talk like normal people, instead of "westerners vs Chinese". I try not to approach the discussions here as such a battle of cultures, but it seems that they always end up that way (in this part of the forum at least, other parts are more friendly and open-minded).

Just realize that we don't come here to act as punching bags, we have better things to do with our time. If any random remark is countered with "you hate China" then the fun is over, the curiosity disappears.
:: I'm in Hangzhou, Zhejiang Province, in July 2008 ::

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Post time 2008-10-27 17:55:12 |Display all floors

Reply #18 taikor's post

Thanks white for the kind mention and now I'm probably gonna get my a$$ kicked by you. taikor, emuc, AKA John B from Melbourne, has been a victim of his own opinion and nobody, or few people, agreeing with it. This doesn't mean he has to be subjected to the constant vitriole that he is. Opinion is subjective, even on objective issues and to be harangued because of it seems to defeat the purpose of the forum. I back  white and those who call for civilised and respectful debate. The world has enough problems in the real world without it permeating onto this BBS. Peace y'all!

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Post time 2008-10-27 19:50:12 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2008-10-27 17:35
There is one tendency that the CD itself is fostering, and it should not do that: It is the wholesale stigmatising and demonising of nationalities as a result when a Chinese poster disagrees with a Westerner. Currently certain posters brand anyone they disagree with as 'Germans', not without adding that extra sting that comes when you take a moral high ground. Excommunicating Germans as posters here because of the NFazi past of their country is a vile, immoral and disgusting act. The same indiscriminate targeting of nationals from France was practised not long before, while anti-British sentiments are a permanent feature of the CD.  ...

Which is ONE of the reasons why I will not state my nationality.

If I post something someone disagrees with, standard practice is to dredge up old history, slap it down and say "Hey your country sucks!".

Why can't people here get it throught their heads that we who LIVE in China want to talk about issues IN CHINA that affect our (and in some cases our families) daily lives and futures.

Much of what we post on is reported by China Daily. Yet, if I or another non-Chinese post about it, we are labelled 'Chinabashers". By that definition, the editors of CD are Chinabashers too!   I mean WTF?

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Post time 2008-10-27 20:28:51 |Display all floors

Reply #26 zhiran's post

True! It's not really allowed to say bad things about China though. I'm generally pro-China but in some things, i'm pro-truth. Some here can't handle that!

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Post time 2008-10-27 22:59:47 |Display all floors
Hi Kiwi,

Pro-Truth can also have two sides.

I had an argument in the pub with a Kiwi recently about the land of the Llama and our points of view were very different.  He just walked away in the end because he didn't want to hear anything he didn't believe.  I have seen you boldly and actively state what you believe to be the truth and get called names for it.  As I stated previously in this thread Chinese people and Westerners are part of their own system of beliefs and this can be very hard to shake.

Whenever I see a topic here I ask myself about what I believe and then I might look at articles on the internet to look for salient points.  When I was at school we were taught about the misery in China and the name of its leader and we were in awe that anything could be so bad.  Your education about China may be similar.  In China they also know about the bad things but they view it as participants rather than us as outsiders looking in and therefore it would be almost impossible to reconcile the two different sides of the same argument.  My mother used to say that an argument is like two people in the same room looking out of different windows.

For an example, the Chinese look upon the Chairman as an important unifier and main figure in Chinese history and therefore give him reverence and respect.  Many foreigners just quote figures about how many people lost their lives.  To some extent both points of view are true and quite valid except you have to find out what the motivations were and what actually caused the main problems.  History records that the main events for 1958 -1960 were an over-zealous leader with a lack of knowledge of business, industry and farming and drought and severe storms and flooding in 1959.  In addition, over estimates from local and corrupt officials trying to make themselves look good.  The other main factor was the nightmare inexperienced over production of steel which was of such low quality that it broke at the first use and the man hours it took from away from farming.  The former caused deforestation, a lack of tools especially in agriculture and a broken economy.  The bumper harvest of 1959 gave cause that the new plan was working giving further confidence and allowed for the shipment excess grain to be traded abroad which caused even more calamity in 1959 when due to droughts in some parts harvests failed and unusually high flooding and arrived in the Yellow River (2 million drowned).  There is a litany of errors associated with this period including the killing of all sparrows and this led to massive populations of locusts further exacerbating the problems.  Many local government officials were publicly executed for their reporting facts falsely and helping to make the situation even worse.

During all of this the economy was led by a conviction that it was for the people to make their country and lives better.  O.K it can be seen viewed from the future that it was wrong and any Chinese will admit that, but the point is that it was not done with hatred or vindictiveness.  It was just extremely poor management.  This is a 1960 quote,  ” Additionally, this loss in Mao's regime meant that Mao became a "dead ancestor," as he labeled himself: a person who was respected but never consulted, occupying the political background of the Party.”  (until 1966, another story)

Poor judgment does not normally label someone as a person committing genocide but rather a human.  Winston Churchill planned and sent many ANZACS to their deaths at Gallipoli and was involved in other dreadful planning disasters in WWII and he is regarded in the West as a hero.  Poor judgment does not mean that the act was deliberate and out of spite.  The arguments I see: He killed all those people!  He sent grain abroad while people starved! The latter being true of 1959, but they were unaware of the real scale of the situation on the ground and it was too late after the problems were discovered. It was according to several articles the rural people that suffered the most and away from cities were there was rationed food.

So I believe there are even two sides to the truth especially as it matures.  Incidentally there are numerous articles on, “The Great Leap Forward” on the internet and in it is almost a comedy of errors if it were not so sad.   

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Post time 2008-10-30 11:10:17 |Display all floors
Well, I am not surprised that this thread is inactive, but to the people that did contribute that says a lot about you and the risks you are willing to take.

Notably missing in this thread are the deviants who having nothing to say and cannot paste their simplistic rhetoric in a thread which is for logical argument.

Looking at the threads this week it is again obvious that there is a core of just plain abusive and stupid posters led by Correction, Buddy and JBG to name but a few.  These people seem to believe in quantity and repetition rather than quality.

This leads me on the re-examine why foreigner posters would even bother to come here.  To me it seems that the foreigners who visit are people who have experienced some of China and are very supportive of it, but with some reservations. Their experience and thoughts one would have thought should be very valuable insight for the powers looking in.

Who are the second language English speaking contributors who are so virulent in their outright hatred of foreigners?  Are they Chinese?  Are they overseas Chinese?  Why are they so full of loathing and why do posters answer their threads when the argument died at the first stroke with the very first insults of (sic) ‘dcikhead’ and other forms of abuse.  Why does the CD allow so many threads to continue unabated which clearly contain racism and hatred?

How can anyone get away with using nationalistic sentiments about other races and continue on page after page?

Is there a way in which discussing a topic we could just ignore completely the comments of the inane and act as if there had been no post at all.  Is it possible that we could communually and internally stop returning posts to the offenders so that the CD could see that we do not answer the posts of the certain few but only respond to the posts from the posters who are making a point.  Could we train these strange cretinous fools to be less vile,

Maybe we could use a code. For posts that are stupid and offensive just reply with.  Ha, ha, ha!

This would mark the post as one which should or would not be answered, I am sure the person posting would eventually take the message.

Or am I just being naive?

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