Author: globalminded

Dalai's Loss and the Ending of Slavery [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 4

Post time 2008-5-23 23:11:24 |Display all floors

For # 27 Church and State

Thank you, interesting. Just got a few things to add...

Confusionism has never been a religion in China, though some people may think that way. Confusious has been admired as a philosopher, a man of wisdom, a real person of flesh and blood from Shandong of China, not a god or god's son, or a divine being capable of creating heavens and earth and humans... Confusious claimed no power over the universe or a grand plan for the cosmos, nor any ownership of other humans as slaves or serfs.

Confusius did not persecute people like the Church of England that drove the Pilgrims to North America, nor did anyone suffer in his hands like Galileo under the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages for telling something true which we all accept today.

Confusious left behind teachings and advices, but he did not write a Bible. He did not prescribe that humans are sinful and guilty by birth. On the contrary, he adivsed that people are born kind-hearted and that bad hehaviors are basically a social phenomenon.

Confusious preached brotherhood and human love as an expression of humans' good nature, not because people should do it out of the sheer fear of going to hell in the next life. He believed virtues and goodness will last and will outshine evils, but he did not claim he would come back to judge everybody someday.

Confusious did not predict an end of the world in fire. He did not talk about burning in hells, nor did he claim he was a reincarnated divinity from some time before.

China in history had no officially established state church as far as I know. China has been pretty secular all along. Buddism was only introduced to China from India later, and Christianity was not even known in China until some two hundred years ago. And even Buddism does not revere a superbeing like god; Buddism emphasized self cultivation and meditation. China did have and probably still has plenty of superstition, but that is not to be confused with religion or church.

Athiesm is not a theology. There isn't such as thing as "athiest theology" as you suggested. And since there is thiesm, there has to be athiesm in this world. That's perfectly natural. What's the fundamental difference between non-believing and athiesm?

And you have a theocracy only when you combine church and state, religion and government, divinity and politics. I don't think that's the practice in China now, nor before, even though emperors  liked to claim their power was heavenly sanctioned. But that was way from theocarcy. And there are still kings and queens in the world nowadays.

By the way, the old Tibet's ruling system combined church (in their sense of religion) and government, enforcing abolute obedience coupled with cruel punishments, and it was a government by a few and for a few rooted in a system of serfdom spanning the whole region.

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Post time 2008-5-24 00:30:22 |Display all floors

For #22 and #10 Interpretation and Perception

Thank you, seneca, for offering an interpretation and perception of history - on your own behalf.

It's understandable that some opinions (and facts) are hard to accept. But we can live with that, I guess.

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Post time 2008-5-24 08:44:38 |Display all floors

For #27 Theocracy Re-defined

Thanks, interesting, for your own interpretation of theocracy.

I'm afraid you should also include the United States in your list of re-defined theocracy.

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2008-5-24 15:02:58 |Display all floors

You are so convoluted , tangled and pushed inside out  that  orifice you are looking at is in fact the southern end of your mouth !!

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Post time 2008-5-24 17:19:48 |Display all floors

The southern end of his mouth?

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Post time 2008-5-24 17:20:56 |Display all floors

I think he means down-under ...

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2008-5-24 18:50:17 |Display all floors
Well, Xinghai, that's an utter load because no one said Confucius is the Chinese Jesus. In fact, I think it utterly absurd and deeply ignorant that you equate religion with Christianity.

I see you conveniently left out the fact that the Confucians codified the ritual veneration of ancestors and that Confucius himself placed the government of China on a theological foundation through the mandate of heaven with the emperor directly exposed to it and thereby expressing the will of heaven. Indeed, this doesn't place the emperor very far from the Pope. Different religion, same concept; I guess they may not teach anything about traditional Chinese religious practices in Chinese schools anymore.

China had an officially established "church" through the Confucian system of codified ancestor veneration since the Tang dynasty. Prior to that there was a religious system that nonetheless saw the emperor at its head--not too unlike the god-king of Japan--even though it was not heavily centralized.

A theology is merely a system of beliefs which follow from what someone believes about a deity. An atheist theology is a system of beliefs which follow from the belief that there is no god, or, equivalently, that for any god, that god does not exist. Not all atheists require a theology: I do not require one because I simply do not believe in god, I do not specifically assert the negative statement "there is no god". China as a country with vestigial Marxism asserts that there is no god and there are then a series of policies which reflect that assertion.

In order to have a theocracy, all you must do is have your beliefs about deity to guide state policy in a direct and official manner. China does that, therefore it may just qualify. Historically, of course, it qualified quite nicely.
"Justice prevails... evil justice."

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