Author: expatter

Democracy, "Voice or Choice?" [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2008-4-24 23:38:38 |Display all floors
Interesting

I am very happy to learn that there is a difference in the turnout of voters in the U.S and in the U.K.

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Post time 2008-4-25 00:23:42 |Display all floors
Expatter,

My point is that similar issues may impact UK turnout. The UK has become more a place for immigrants in the last couple of decades than it was and it may actually have the same calculatory issues.
"Justice prevails... evil justice."

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Post time 2008-4-25 00:26:33 |Display all floors
interesting

Great. Send some facts then.

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Post time 2008-4-25 01:35:09 |Display all floors
Wouldn't know and I'm not your research lackey, not really sure what your point is anyhow.
"Justice prevails... evil justice."

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Post time 2008-4-25 11:16:11 |Display all floors
interesting

Wouldn't know


Why bother then?

Please bear in mind that I have used the U.K system for a model here


I fail to see how providing statistics and data for the U.S proves the argument for voter apathy in the U.K.  I know that both countries speak a form of English and both have a 'U' in their name but that doesn't make a piece of data a fact for both.  Whilst the U.S and the U.K both have immigration issues it is not a fact that these are treated in the same way and should not naively be assumed as such.

My point is as stated:

a simple hypothesis of democracy in the U.K and see how much of it other people here agree or disagree with it.


As regards :

I'm not your research lackey


I am well aware of this and wouldn't expect you to be.  Therefore if you were to provide data appropriate to the question then you wouldn't have to make this comment.

Besides you might find the interview procedure very much more difficult than you thought it might be and there is a large possibility that you might completely misunderstand the requirements of that position.

Ta, Ta!

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Post time 2008-4-25 17:09:21 |Display all floors
Expatter,

It's pretty clear that you're a dishonest person and not actually discussing the issues so much as moving ahead with some ulterior motive. If you were discussing the issue merely, you'd have taken up the findings from the United States with interest to see if they were true of the UK. As it stands, it's pretty clear that you're not actually interested in the democratic question and that your point never was to bring up the UK to provide an example for a discussion of democracy and participation, as you suggested.

So what is your motive?
"Justice prevails... evil justice."

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Post time 2008-4-25 19:35:57 |Display all floors

Why vote when the result is a foregone conclusion?

You are obviously lacking knowledge of the finer details of UK politics.

Throughout the 1980's the UK was led by Margaret Thatcher. A controversial figure who was reviled by some and worshipped by others. Consequently the elections she ran in had a relatively high turnout (by todays standards). She was deposed and no one knew who was going to win the next election. By this point everyone was fed up with the Tories (governing party), but the opposition looked simply incompetent. In terms of votes cast (not the turnout %) this election attracted the largest ever vote in UK history. The Tories won, and spent the next 5 years destroying each other and any respect the general populace had for the party.

Come the next election (and every major election since then) everyone knew that Labour were going to win. Consequently there is little need to go and vote.

Also, voters tend to be pretty partisan beasts. By the time the average person reaches their mid twenties they will have decided which party they support, and almost always vote for them. If they cannot bring themselves to vote for the party they usually support it's much more likely for them to not vote at all than switch and vote for a competing party. Swing voters are pretty rare, which is why they are so important and why campaigns are generally targeted at them.

So, since 1997 Tory voters have stayed away as they could not bring themselves to support a failed party, and a lot of Labour voters have not felt the need to show up because it's been pretty obvious who's going to win. And this results in poor turnout figures.

The next general election is looking a lot closer, although Labour are looking to be in serious danger of alienating their support and driving voters away.

If past form is anything to go by the next UK general election should see quite a jump in voter turnout, as people will turn up when it's a close race.

[ Last edited by vicarious at 2008-4-25 07:52 PM ]

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