Author: natalya

George W. Bush: A Symptom of Disease [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2007-1-16 22:11:13 |Display all floors

Reply #5/6 --- middlekingdo & mengzhi posts...

1.  middlekingdo:  I don't remember criticizing anyone who does not agree with who I voted for.  That is the great thing about the United States democracy.  Anyone legally able to vote can select any candidate that favors the policies and actions they themselves support.  When you resort to name-calling, you are just showing you lack of education and the ability to construct a logical argument.  A majority voted Republican because they feel the conservative policies he professed agreed with their values and goals.  Simple as that.  A majority of Americans now disapprove of the Iraq war because Americans are dying and no easy 'victory' is possible.  If the Iraqi people had shown the balls to create and support a strong government that the Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites could back, Americans who be hailing President Bush as a great president who changed the course of history in the Middle East.  We all like a winner.

Because you are attacking George Bush the man rather than his actions, I could also simply label you a liberal-Democrat who wishes to live off the government dole.  A person too lazy to work to support himself who simply cries that wealthy individuals and big corporations are making too much money.  You are probably embittered because you dropped out of high school and are working at Imo's Pizza, and trolling the local neighborhoods for young boys.

But I won't pursue further insults.  But please be more specific as to why you call the president a terrorist?  The past cannot be changed.  What is your solution to withdraw American troops from Iraq and still leave a stable government that can provide security and justice for all Iraqis?

2.  mengzhi:  This is a forum for the free exchange of ideas and opinions.  Your desire for censoring any particular forumite is pointless.  If you only want to read opinions which you agree with, you need to find another forum.  Rather that simply condemning particular national leaders, and those who support them, try discussing particular polices and providing your solution to problems.  And try suggesting other leaders whose actions and policies you agree with, and whom you want other leaders to emulate.  This would be a much more interesting discussion.  Otherwise, you may wish to start subscribing to the National Enquirer or the Star magazines.  These might be more in line with your interests.

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Post time 2007-1-17 02:36:23 |Display all floors

Take some of your own advice.

Dear nosferatu,

I am quite tired of your spins and slides. Dubya happens to be the most powerful and influencial man on this planet ; not by due intelligence or diligence but opportunism. He is the man who can change all our lives whether we like it or not. We are allowed to criticise his dastard foreign policy disasters because they have caused untold misery and huge loss of lives around the world. This is true democracy : not your version of " you can say whatever you like as long as I approve " !

You should follow some of your own excellent advice about tackling the message , not the messanger. When have I " censored " anyone on any point of view /I admit I am not inclined to suffer fools who keep insisting in showing their wares of misinformation, half truths and downright lies and to then pontificate on those same myths and manufactured concerns. I also admit that I do not possess a pair of kid gloves.

Here on this topic of Dubya, I offer no apologies in criticising this man who has caused the most pain and anguish for the world over the past 6 years. If his own fellow Americans wish to continue cheering him on, it is your option. The rest of the world do not have to take it in silence, thank goodness.

Perhaps you can tell us how your commander-in-chief has done you proud and kept the nation safe then.

[ Last edited by mengzhi at 2007-1-17 02:38 AM ]

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Post time 2007-1-17 06:02:09 |Display all floors
Originally posted by mengzhi at 16-1-2007 11:07
Who did YOU vote for in the UK then ? Blair the twin of the Texas twit ?


I did not vote for Blair - never have done and wouldn't if he was going to stay on as PM.

Suddenly there is an embarassing silence as to being the cheer leader for these patholigical liars


LOL, what the hell? You expected me to reply before you'd even posted? meng, that was a stupid comment even for you.

I would still like to hear whether middlekingdom voted or not. Not so much who he voted for, but whether he did vote (because it's obvious he didn't vote Republican).

[ Last edited by mencius at 2007-1-16 10:04 PM ]
"People are the water, the ruler is the boat; water can carry the boat, but it can also capsize it."

-- Li Shimin (2nd Tang Emperor, "Taizong")

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Post time 2007-1-18 18:59:11 |Display all floors

Reply #9 --- mengzhi's post...

You wrote,

"I am quite tired of your spins and slides. "

==> Solution:  Don't read my posts.

You wrote,

"We are allowed to criticise his dastard foreign policy disasters because they have caused untold misery and huge loss of lives around the world. This is true democracy : not your version of " you can say whatever you like as long as I approve " !"

==>  In case you have misunderstood what I have continued to support, in all of my posts, you are basically regurgitating exactly what I am promoting.  The ability of all posters to express their opinions and ideas without others insulting and calling them names simply because they disagree.  I only demand one thing:  that all intelligent and honest posters provide evidence for their criticisms.  Not rehash media editorials and opinions.  This is the just an example of sheep (or lemmings) be led by hate-mongers.

Your wrote,

"You should follow some of your own excellent advice about tackling the message , not the messanger. When have I " censored " anyone on any point of view /I admit I am not inclined to suffer fools who keep insisting in showing their wares of misinformation, half truths and downright lies and to then pontificate on those same myths and manufactured concerns. I also admit that I do not possess a pair of kid gloves."

==>  If you make an accusation to a national leader/organization/country, simply provide facts and evidence to make your case.  If you only wish to insult and diminish a leader/organization/country, then tell us how one of these is hurting you and causing your hate.

You wrote,

"Here on this topic of Dubya, I offer no apologies in criticising this man who has caused the most pain and anguish for the world over the past 6 years. If his own fellow Americans wish to continue cheering him on, it is your option. The rest of the world do not have to take it in silence, thank goodness."

==>  Based on actual events, you can make a case for Iraqis and American soldiers (and their families) being hurt.  Please be more specific about what other people in the world you believe President Bush has hurt, and how.  If you are going to discuss something like differences in wealth and unequal use of resources, please provide include the statistics for other major nations in the world and convince us they also deserve their share.

You wrote,

"Perhaps you can tell us how your commander-in-chief has done you proud and kept the nation safe then"

==>  The President is a member of the executive branch which has the duty to enforce laws created by the legislative branch.  As the leader of the Republican party, he has the ability to present budgets and support legislature.  I have never said I completely approve of the president.  In fact, he is not fiscally conservative enough for me.  But I believe he firmly believes what he says.  I do not always agree with his views.  Especially on spending, border control, and his slide into nation building.  Two things that can be backed up factually are the short economic damage done after 911 and the fact no other Al Qaeda terrorist actions have occurred in the US since 911.  It is unfortunate that the Republican party has lost their way and are nothing more than a slightly better version of what the Democrats currently are.

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Post time 2007-1-18 19:32:49 |Display all floors
nosferatu,

There is a distinction between labelling a statement " silly or stupid " and calling the person making that statement " silly and stupid " . In practise, sometimes the line blurrs. We are all proud of our " understanding " and we all have the monopoly of the " truth ". So it is with  your latest post, I do not see your accepting that the Bush administration has done anything wrong at all. It is your privilege and your right to be so.What is not your right is to criticise those who would have a difference in opinion to you, especially over the American foreign policy of late. I will continue to voice my dissatisfaction when I see bad moves by Dubya and you can show me up if you can. As your commander-in-chief has said " Bring it on ".

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Post time 2007-1-19 00:31:14 |Display all floors

Reply #12 --- mengzhi's post...

You wrote,

"So it is with  your latest post, I do not see your accepting that the Bush administration has done anything wrong at all. "

You will have to be more specific about what topic you are concerned with.  Again, you did not fully read (understand?) my last post.  I specifically said that President Bush and I differed on fical conservatism and border control.

This means that I think President Bush is allowing the United States Congress to spend too much money, and that he shoud be enforcing fiscal responsibility by balancing the budget --- only allowing them to spend money they have, and attempt to lower the national debt.  He could do this by simply using a veto until a balanced budget is presented to him.  I think that President Bush should be sending US law enforcement and military to Canadian and Mexican borders in an effort to control who enters US territory.  Only legally entry into US borders should be allowed.

If you are only focused on the Iraq war, I believe, based on: 1) the intelligence information provided to him by US, European, and Middle East agencies, and 2)Saddam Hussein's violation of UN sanctions, and 3) the attempt to block inspections, that a case can be made for his actions.  If he had not invaded, and Iraq threatened US vital interests or security, a case could have been made to impeach him.

At the time, I did not think Iraq posed an IMMEDIATE threat, and, therefore, wanted to see evidence/justification for the invasion.  None was produced, but the US, Great Britain and a few other nations had already won the battle and occupied the nation.  The goal now is to establish a stable government, friendly to the west, which can police and defend itself.  Civil War, or tribal conflict, is the current situation.  I would advice President Bush to pick a side (Kurds, Shiites, Sunnis) and fight with them to subdue the other two, or establish three separate states, one for each Islamic faction.  Preventing Iran from extending their influence into Iraq is also important.  Important enough to wage war against Iran, because they continue to promote the destruction of the United States and the spread of Islamic culture, which counters the culture I wish to live in.

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Post time 2007-1-19 02:19:54 |Display all floors

well preacher, why can you

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