Author: northwest

Democracy manipulator, color revolutions and CIA arms [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2006-10-20 01:50:25 |Display all floors
Originally posted by nosferatu at 2006-10-20 00:36
Who are you to judge what actions/national policy of other people believe are best for them?  
If Chinese leaders are doing a good job for the people, then they should not fear being replaced in a democatic election.  And such an election is the only true way to determine if the people believe their leaders are supporting policies which help them.  ...


China overall livelihood is improving, poverty decreasing, trade burgeoning, wealth increasing and... military get mightier. This could be fine enough for any developing country and certainly the best for Chinese citizens. But of course, for any current hegemony, this is not what they want to see. A weak and divided China fits well your supremacist ego and people's will is only your excuse to dictate on other's affairs.

Seems that it's you that dodging the question. This thread is about democracy manipulators funded by the nastiest of US establishment. You want us to do your style of election and then send those CIA front to meddle in our internal affairs? If you really concerned about democracy, maybe you should oust your friendly dictators friends first before preaching about something you can't fulfill.

Georgia, Kyrgiztan and Ukraine already did they way you want... and see what they have today, move farther away from Russia but deteriorating livelihood, exactly your agenda.

[ Last edited by northwest at 2006-10-20 01:56 AM ]
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Post time 2006-10-20 08:56:20 |Display all floors
Yang,
You don't appear to understand me, or you still talk garbage.

Originally posted by chinese_yang at 2006-10-19 21:07
you said that you agreed with the Convention, but deprived every right of the peoples so conferred by the provisions of the Convention in the territory of australia.

I agree with the idea of providing refugees with safe havens.
Part of the refugee scheme is that people who seek refuge, do so in the first country outside the place they are fleeing from. This means they can be assessed by the United Nations and then sent to countries who are willing to accept refugees.
Australia does accept refugees of this nature who have found to be legitimate, by the UN.
What Australia objects to is those who have disobeyed the refugee conventions (people smugglers) and who have passed through two or three countries where they should have claimed asylum, destroyed their documentation and then illegally arrived in Australia.
Note that the West Papuan asylum seekers were promptly granted visas, as Australia was the first country they arrived at when fleeing persecution in West Papua.
The North Koreans should be able to apply for asylum when they reach China (rather than being sent back). South Korea has been quite happy to accept NK refugees in the past, and most apparently seek to go to South Korea. I am sure that legitimate asylum seekers who wish to come to Australia will be considered along with asylum seekers from other parts of the world.


Originally posted by chinese_yang at 2006-10-19 21:07
if you consider that China didn't treat North Koreans well enough, there is a solution: don't prevent them from moving to australia. give each of them a passport and any other necessary assistance as the case may be instead of spilling your unjustified hostities against them and corner them. you hypocrate freak!  


As I said, Yang, and please try to let this logical thought penetrate through that very dense layer of protective material surrounding your brain, the right to leave a country does not fully equate to a right to migrate to any other country without due regard to the migration policies of that other country.

Personally I believe our refugee policy is too harsh. However I do understand why it has developed to where it is.
This is because we have been a little too generous in the past and this generosity has been abused by people smugglers. So we've had to tighten up the immigration procedures to ensure that genuine people in need get first preference rather than "economic refugees" or those who, like you, wanted to take unfair advantage of our social security system.

JB

[ Last edited by emucentral at 2006-10-20 10:58 AM ]
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Post time 2006-10-20 15:22:42 |Display all floors
Originally posted by wowzers at 2006-10-19 14:48
joe wrote, "yes, when it comes to matter of national, or international, importance.  for example, 90% of chinese want to revenge japan.  85% want to take taiwan today.
75% want to go back to  ...

believe me, woozers, the chinese leaders are thinking about how to deal with these thing all day long.

but democratic leader will simply campaign on them.

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Post time 2006-10-20 15:42:33 |Display all floors
Originally posted by emucentral at 2006-10-19 15:41


Predatory society? Then why are thousands and thousands of Chinese and other Asian people trying to come here each year?

bcs, u have looted and beat up china.  u were much better at predating on other countries.


The ethnic Chinese Australians

australia is more a resort than a country.  i m talking about the warmongering western nations.


These people with the greatest integrity, are you talking about the fellow in charge of the Shanghai pension fund, the senior official from the PLA Navy or the local city officials who own illegal coal mines?

no.  i m talking about those who r trying to remove them.  
how the people would have wished that someone could have removed chen----bean and bush!

a system of absolute power makes it difficult to remove these people before a lot of damage is done.

this happened all the time in chinese history.  we need to improve on that, not imposing a childish system like democracy to allow the predatory politicians to run amok on the people.

With popularly elected officials, the smallest whiff of corruption is likely to damage the re-election prospects. This encourages more scrupulous behaviour by elected representatives.

the fact that the politicians are keenly interested in being elected has made them all perfect their skills in not getting caught.
we need to have a system where money and politics dont mix, unconditionally.  that is, if u r into money or just being rich, pls do us a favor and stay out of politics.


If the people are given balanced information then I think you will find they are more reasonable.

well, that's what happened in taiwan.  everybody pretty much voted on ethnic lines.  that's what democracy does -- causing ethnic divides.  look at iraq.

my biggest qualm about democracy is it's the most effective warmachine devised by man, specifically the american men.  there should be an international law that says for all countries practicing democracy, they must have a provision in their constitution that any state, province, city or town can claim for itself conscientious objector status in time of wars.  as a californian, i pity my state having to suffer under this stupid iraq war.

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Post time 2006-10-20 15:49:29 |Display all floors
Originally posted by emucentral at 2006-10-19 18:29

Zheng He's fleet (to which you presumably refer) was said to have visited Australia. The Chinese fleets also visited many other countries and demanded "tribute" from the local people.
...

zheng he could easily occupied australia.  he mined australia quite a bit but still didnt impressed the confucius mandarines to do the barbaric exploitation of other people's land.

one wise emperor one time ask some neighboring country's representative who brought with him some tribute: how u want me to repay u with 3 times the tribute u brought me?

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Post time 2006-10-20 16:12:58 |Display all floors
Originally posted by nosferatu at 2006-10-20 00:36
Who gets to decide which people have the greatest integrity, knowledge and qualifications?

the previous leaders with the greatest integrity, knowledge and qualifications.
the chinese did that twice already.

in one case of selecting the next emperor, one key qualification was: whoever least want to be emperor.

And what if there is disagreement of who gets selected, or even what the selected people do?  

the system is base on integrity first, then qualification.  anyone with that should know who to select based on a debate on that.
How can you guarantee that Communist leaders will not continue to manipulate their people? I belive most peole oppose such tyranny.

r u talking about democracy or the meritocracy i m talking about.  the major manipulation, in case u havent noticed, is during the election campaign. and the tyranny comes from the mob that forms the majority voting group.

First, where are you pulling these percentages from?  Please provide background source/evidence for your numbers.

so they might be much higher.

Secondly, even if these were true figures, don't you believe that the government of the people should try follow the wishes of the people with respect to bettering their lives?

americans did, that's why iraq is invaded.  israel did, that why lebanon.  in fact, americans has be righteously invading everybody else ever since its implementation of democracy.

  You used extreme examples, and should take into account that any major war would involve great loss of life and destruction on both sides.

not if u r a well prepared war machine.   that's why we cant stop building weapons now, thanks to the mobs in democratic countries.

American, Israeli, etc citizens are too dumb to make good choices for their own country.  Please stick to the original question.

it's not a question of intelligent or dumb, but of self-interest.  everyone want their countries to be strong, so build weapons.  whites will vote for whites, so black become slaves.  christians/jews hates muslims, so religious war.

it takes animal instinct to cast a vote, but saints to make a decision that's fair and just for all the people.

  Who are you to judge what actions/national policy of other people believe are best for them?

that's why leadership training and testing should be of paramount importance.
conversely, vote getting skill is just about the most despicable quality a leader could have.  

If Chinese leaders are doing a good job for the people, then they should not fear being replaced in a democatic election.

by people only good at vote getting?

  And such an election is the only true way to determine if the people believe their leaders are supporting policies which help them.

hasnt happened in the last 250 years, at least to the minority and other countries' citizen.
one way democracy may work in the long run.  that is global democracy.  then all the whites would have to be put in jail.

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Post time 2006-10-20 17:59:14 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2006-10-20 17:42
australia is more a resort than a country.
...

A very shallow and inaccurate remark.\
Australia is one of the worlds oldest continuous democracies.
Australia was the 2nd country to implement universal suffrage (give women the vote), New Zealand was first.


Originally posted by joeching at 2006-10-20 18:12
it's not a question of intelligent or dumb, but of self-interest.  everyone want their countries to be strong, so build weapons.  whites will vote for whites, so black become slaves.  christians/jews hates muslims, so religious war.
...

Oh really. Well here in this "resort" we don't vote for people on ethnic grounds, we vote based on integrity and values of the candidate. A heck of a lot of anglos, somalians, egyptians, greeks and italians voted for the chinese Lord Mayor of Melbourne.

Originally posted by joeching at 2006-10-20 18:12
the system is base on integrity first, then qualification.  anyone with that should know who to select based on a debate on that.
...

Well that system doesn't work any better than democracy, judging by the litany of corruption reported in China Daily. At least we get to judge these politicians at the ballot box every 3 or 4 years.

Originally posted by joeching at 2006-10-20 18:12
one way democracy may work in the long run.  that is global democracy.  then all the whites would have to be put in jail.
...


Ahh, thanks for that remark joeching. Now we know that you're behaving like some dirty little racist.

JB
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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