Author: a__lucky_boy

I am very confused about that why Taiwan do not want to return [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 4

Post time 2006-7-30 00:30:57 |Display all floors
I can and will tell you by tomorrow 100% of the people surveyed want to migrate to the USA.


Your statement is irresponsible. I am Chinese, and i have no intention to immigrant to USA. I worried about the terrorist attacks there. We ordinary Chinese just want to live safe, peaceful, and richer as the time goes on.

There are many Taiwanese in our city, and many of them bought a house here, and settled down here. and also the mainlander and taiwanese marriage are common. The two governments may have a lot of problems to settle on, but the relation and goodness of people can't be blocked.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2006-7-30 01:08:43 |Display all floors

raymondusa

Perhaps you should look at what type of posts get highlighted and bolded on this website, then you'd know who is the hypocrite really is, and who is really enjoying the ride. Whenver I get into sensitive issues that directly challenge the CCP's record, my posts immediately get deleted. For you to talk about "open issue" and "open debate" in a forum like this is despicable. And again you used all this rhetoric like "unfounded arrogance", "insular" and what not to avoid the question I threw at you because you are a coward hiding in America.

And by the way, you and your kind (mengzhi) are the ones who always turn an open debate into a personal attack. The inability to tolerate dissenting opinions on this matter easily shows who the bigot really is.

I am against DPP policy (or no policy) and I support some sort of compromised plan that will ensure peace in the long run. I think raymondusa's hierarchical sovereignty idea is very constructive, but mengzhi's bigotry isn't. The reason why I think Chinese who are now "foreigners" to China have no rights to comment on the issue is because:
1. You are not subject to the kind of fear the CCP imposes on its people. Don't try to talk like you know everything unless you have your own children in the army and your apartment is possibly within the blast radius of a Chinese missile. For a foreigner Raymondusa to comment the Taiwan issue based on biased info he got is like having a white guy talking about how he suffered through the apartheid.
2. When your parents or whatever chose to leave China for another country, moreover, chose to give up your Chinese citizenship for another country's, it meant that they no longer have faith in the future of China, including that of Taiwan's. Now we the people still living in China are trying to prove you wrong. Your constructive inputs are appreciated but your bigotry isn't.
3. You don't know which political system is most suitable for the people either in Taiwan or China because you do not live there, you do not interact with them on a daily basis. You never took part in Taiwan's political transition, just like how you are not part of China's economic transition; all you can do is looking from the outside in. People like raymondusa and mengzhi are like vultures snatching up on CCP's prey, whether it's their own rural poor or Taiwan. They are on the CCP bandwagon now because things are going good, and when things aren't they stay quiet in their homes in America and UK.

Who's the hypocrite here? Readers will decide!

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2006-7-30 04:51:58 |Display all floors
twchinese:

I’m not the owner or moderator for CD, so I’m not responsible for editorial choices here.  I also have had some of my postings deleted, but you don’t see me whining about it.  If I were the owner or moderator, I would not censor, and allow people to debate openly.  But I’m only a guest here, just like you, so I accept the editorial policies here.  

You are being a hypocrite.  You wrote: “The reason why I think Chinese who are now "foreigners" to China have no rights to comment on the issue is because, you are not subject to the kind of fear the CCP imposes on its people”.    But then you hypocritically welcome supportive comments from other foreigners who are not subject to the kind of fear the CCP imposes on its people.  Now do you see your hypocrisy?   

1. Actually, I have faced greater danger courageously living in USA.  During the Cold War, we didn’t know if USSR was going to start WW3, with a nuclear exchange.  FYI, there were some folks in the Midwest busy building fallout shelters, hoping they could survive a nuclear war.  We faced a far greater threat living in America, than what Taiwanese face today, so spare me with your silly fear mongering.  Nuclear annihilation is far more threatening than being in the missile radius in Taiwan.      

2. When my parents left China, it wasn’t because they didn’t have faith in the future of China.  My parents came to America to take care of my sick grandfather.  Filial piety is still an admirable trait in Chinese culture.  I question your credibility because you don’t even know my family, yet somehow you think you know why my parents came to America.  If my grandfather was in HK, Singapore, Canada, South America, Canton China, that’s where my parents would have gone.  My grandfather just happened to be in USA at the time, so that where my parents went.  

3. Check the archives and you will see for yourself, that I’ve never claimed I know what political system is most suitable for China and Taiwan.  That’s for China and Taiwan to decide.  I suggested Hierarchical Sovereignty as a structure, not a political system, to address the concerns on both sides.  

Lastly, I still have relatives living in China.  I don’t want to see war, because that may put my relatives in danger.  That’s why I’ve consistently supported Status Quo, because it is best for now, at maintaining the peace, albeit not ideally for both sides.  I’m comfortable with Status Quo, and allowing the trends to run its course.  But like the Taiwanese delegation who tried and failed 13 conservative times to change Status Quo at the UN, it sure doesn’t sound like you are comfortable with Status Quo.   I’ll give you credit for seeing that the trends are not favorable for Taiwan, so it’s understandable that they want to change Status Quo.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2006-7-30 10:34:47 |Display all floors

a civilized post gets a civilized response from me

Raymond, we'll leave arguments on hypocrite and open debate for the chinadaily moderators to think over.

This thread is about why "Taiwan do not want to return." And I said that it's because of the fear of living with and being controlled by misinformed bigots like mengzhi, who labels everyone who is critical of China with "Taidu." And then there's this guy called arthur, who started calling people baichi... all I did was trying to reflect on this sort of behavior, typical among certain forumites. If you guys can't even keep a civilized discussion and refrain from making personal attacks in an online forum, who would ever want to "return" to live with you and under your rule?

Chinese people on both sides of the straight are practical people; what separates Taiwan and China now is not the kind of radicalism that brought Israel into decades of conflicts with its Arab neighbors. There must be reasons of practical nature that keeps the Taiwanese from wanting to "return" to the motherland.

If our mainland compatriots can learn to be more tolerant of people whose views differ from theirs, then everything can be put on the discussion table for an open debate.

[ Last edited by twchinese at 2006-7-30 10:37 AM ]

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2006-7-30 11:53:49 |Display all floors

Stop mumbling under your breath.

twchinese,

You are pathetic. When you keep accusing me of launching personal attacks on people who hold different views from me, at least show me the courtesy of addressing the complaint to me and not through raymond. You keep calling me " bigot " and assume that this is not name calling ? I do not mind being labelled with terms related to the political view point ; eg " taidu " is just a description of those who push for Taiwan independence, a short hand nomenclature for ease of communication. There is no demonising or derogatory implications attached ! So if you advocate Tw independence, you should not take offence with this term. What I object to is being called personal nasty names like " stupid, idiot etc " . I am not suggesting you are guilty of this practice but these would be the sort of personal attacks not acceptable as per forum rules anyway.

Show me one instance where I am guilty of such misdemeanor and I will apologise immediately.

Back to " why Taiwan do not want to return ( to the mainland ) " I am firmly of the opinion that it is due to Uncle Sam's manipulation. If the USA is more honest and dignified, it would stop stirring more trouble between the parties on both sides of the Strait and the re-unification ( 1C2S) would have occured years ago. :)

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2006-7-31 05:02:58 |Display all floors
twchinese:

You are still being a hypocrite.  You and others have used names like “brainwashed”, implying that if others have a different opinion than you, then they must be “brainwashed” since they cannot possibly form their own opinions by themselves.  You better check yourself before you try to correct others, since your hypocrisy not only runs in your arguments, but in your indictment of others.  

Since this is a written forum, I do use some colorful language mainly for people I don’t respect, so they know where they stand with me.  I don't tell people they should not use colorful language since that is hypocritical.  I encourage and enjoy an open and vigorous debate.  We don’t have to agree all the time.  But the people I respect are people who can make a cogent argument, support it with facts and evidence, and apply it uniformly, not hypocritically.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2006-7-31 06:20:03 |Display all floors

another feeble argument on my hypocrisy

Raymond I tried to be civilized with you because you do have some constructive ideas on the Taiwan issue. But the fact that you have the audacity to talk about "brainwashing" with me is just ridiculous. Both you and I know which side of the straight censors the world wide web, only allow state controlled media, and impose restrictions and on top restrictions on all sorts of publications. I mean, just look at this forum itself, why is it that all the posts that glorify the CCP are bolded and highlighted and pinned??? When you bombard your people with the same information coming out of the same source for decades, and all the info. you'll have ever had access to has to be approved by the party... if you don't call that brainwashing, then what do you call it? a measure to ensure stability? haha....

and to mengzhi, i have challenged you several times directly, if you have read my post carefully you would have noticed. But i guess you don't because your comprehension skill is so impoverished that it resulted in your understanding of "Taiwan pays 18 billion dollars to Uncle Sam annually," when the arms sale you are referring to hasn't even been passed. And then you bash Taiwan's democracy, while failing to understand that if it wasn't for Taiwan's democracy, this arms sale would have taken place more than 1 year ago.

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