Author: sundayrun

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Post time 2006-7-15 17:09:34 |Display all floors
The point that you are refering to is probably not regarded as a serious mistake here in Japan. They say that all major political decisions made during the Meiji period were good ones. Bad ones were made, they believe, during the early Showa period.  

Japanese historians often focus, in their arguments, on finding out what happened to the Japanese between the period of the Meiji and Showa era, assuming that some qualities were degraded during that period of time.

Japan at that time could have been colonized by European powers, but was not actually colonized while most of Asian countries were. So the Japanese generally believe today that proper decisons were made at that time. Nobody accuses Meiji Emperor for anything as far as I know.

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Post time 2006-7-15 18:04:09 |Display all floors
i don't hate japanese and i do hope to have japanese friends.

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Post time 2006-7-16 01:44:59 |Display all floors
soudenjapan>The point that you are refering to is probably not regarded as a serious mistake here in Japan.
joe>we have the same problem in china, regarding to sun yat sen, according to my personal , unpopular view.  but to me, this is the reason why china and japan is now on a collision course, and the world is heading into a doomsday.

soudenjapan>They say that all major political decisions made during the Meiji period were good ones.
joe>could u give me some idea how much the japanese still worship meiji?

japan> Bad ones were made, they believe, during the early Showa period.
joe>i, in fact, live in the late showa period in japan as a kid.  hirohito to me was only a figure-head type of a person.  was he significant before ww ii ended?  i mean as a hands-on major policy maker?

japan>Japanese historians often focus, in their arguments, on finding out what happened to the Japanese between the period of the Meiji and Showa era, assuming that some qualities were degraded during that period of time.
joe>i think they should really focus on what made japan's showdown with america inevitable and the atrocities in korea and china capable by the modern japanese military.  even like today's non-apologetic attitude toward china and the eagerness to remilitarize, or even contemplating preemptive strike against n.korea.

you may be interested to comment on my, again, unpopular post:
<http://www.ping-pong.net/nanmas.html>

japan>Japan at that time could have been colonized by European powers, but was not actually colonized while most of Asian countries were.
joe>but asia has been an old and cultured place.  being colonized by western barbarians was in our fate, which china had accepted so that she could remain being as asian as possible.  but being turned into barbarians ourselves was not  in our fate.

i think meiji made a mistake of succumbing to this temptation of modernization thru westernization, not realization his unconscientious agenda was militarization, or barbarism.  even if we forget about the modernization and militarization, how can we explain the barbaric acts of the japanese soldiers in other asian countries? were they the proper behaviors of civilized asians?  in short we need to pinpoint the exact moment when japanese changed from asian to non-asian.

japan>So the Japanese generally believe today that proper decisons were made at that time. Nobody accuses Meiji Emperor for anything as far as I know.
joe>i feel this modern view is still typical of the west or westernized japanese.  it focused on effect, rather than cause, opposite to the asian(buddhism fex) approach.

is meijii also worshipped in the shrine that the prime minister's visits have cause so much bad feeling between china/korea and japan?

finally, excuse for my bluntness, do japanese consider themselves, or even preferred, to be asian or westerners?

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Post time 2006-7-16 19:16:02 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2006-7-16 03:44
finally, excuse for my bluntness, do japanese consider themselves, or even preferred, to be asian or westerners?  ...


What a strange question Joe.

Do you consider yourself an "easterner" or a Chinese or whatever.

I consider myself an "Australian", not a westerner, not European, British, Irish, Scottish or French, even tho my ancestors are from those last 4 countries.

JB
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2006-7-16 23:03:24 |Display all floors
joeching,

you may be interested to comment on my, again, unpopular post:
<http://www.ping-pong.net/nanmas.html>


I am not sure if I understood your thesis or not, but the essence of what you are saying seems that the Nanking was an inevitable consequence of the westernization policy in the 19th century in Japan, and that,therefore, those who made the decision to embrace westernization, including Meiji Emperor, should be denounced in history edcation in Japan.

Am I right or wrong?

do japanese consider themselves, or even preferred, to be asian or westerners?

Let me put it this way. The Japanese want to be respected by both Asians and Westerners.

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Post time 2006-7-17 04:16:24 |Display all floors
Originally posted by emucentral at 2006-7-16 19:16
What a strange question Joe.
Do you consider yourself an "easterner" or a Chinese or whatever.
I consider myself an "Australian", not a westerner, not European, Britis ...


i m a chinese.  to me an australian and an american are just people who think they r more australian and more american than other residents.  this is why in america, all the minority except the anglos are disliked by more than 60% of the population(the chinese 80-20 club did a survey on chinese.  it's 70%).

i m an american citizen, and the best, and maybe only chance, for world peace and, someday, one world one people, is  to consider america belong to all the people of the old countries.

is this answer strange enough for u?

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Post time 2006-7-17 04:44:15 |Display all floors
Originally posted by soudenjapan at 2006-7-16 23:03
I am not sure if I understood your thesis or not, but the essence of what you are saying seems that the Nanking was an inevitable consequence of the westernization policy in the 19th century in Japan, and that,therefore, those who made the decision to embrace westernization, including Meiji Emperor, should be denounced in history edcation in Japan.

Am I right or wrong?


yes, exactly.  i m not the only one saying that.  as early as 1920's, bertrand russell, the english philosopher observed that after visiting china.

<http://www.ping-pong.net/rusevw.html>

do japanese consider themselves, or even preferred, to be asian or westerners?

Let me put it this way. The Japanese want to be respected by both Asians and Westerners.


having lived in japan when young and my major partner in business being a japanese, my observation is that japanese are largely a misunderstood people by outsiders.  for example, the chinese see them in the context of nanking massacre, and the westerners actually suspect them of retaining the master race complex.

but to me, they r basically introvert people, typical of asians, although the oversea japanese and politicians are the minorty extrovert japanese.  in the city the modernized people live like bees in hives, but in the outskirts, japan probably retained, more than any asian country, the "paradise" the the earliest westerner visitor found in asian -- at least, that how they discribed china in the 1700's.

in this troubled time, self-assertion become important to salvage the little humanity that's left after the great wars.  for example the muslims, jews and christians have definitely asserted themselves.  how about us asians?

basically, it all boil down to:  how much blood we are willing to shed in wars and for profits?  and how great a price we are willing to pay for peace and harmony?

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