Author: circlept

In today's China Daily: Involve the masses in the nation's reform [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2006-5-17 04:26:00 |Display all floors

This needs to be dealt with

I don't think China can move on until it has started a healing process over this, as is the case with other events (which the gov doesn't like to talk about). So there needs to be a fair assessment of it - perhaps a highly-level public inquiry or something. Throwing money around doesn't help right the wrongs of the past. Talking about it honestly might.
"People are the water, the ruler is the boat; water can carry the boat, but it can also capsize it."

-- Li Shimin (2nd Tang Emperor, "Taizong")

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Post time 2006-5-17 04:43:46 |Display all floors

Moving On Very Well

Improving the lives of 1.3 billion is the best way to heal.   China is moving on very well.  The hurdle to overcome is more growth and more jobs. The immediate problem is not involving more (who are objectively not qualified to make national decisions).  The immediate problem is coming up with the right kind of growth that will be profitable and self sustaining, that can generate jobs to absorb the millions of new college grads each year.

Lots of improvements are needed - and the needs are well known, you don't need to take a poll to find out.  If China is short 500,000 doctors, train 750,000.  If China is short 1.5 million nurses, train 2 million.  The world can always use a few more pairs of skilled hands.

"Participation" can contribute basically only in 2 areas - (a) identify needs that are not met; and (b) keeping those in power honest (by reporting corruption, etc.).  China does not lack either.  The more difficult part, namely coming up with wise decisions given the many limitations and hurdles, both within and without, is uniquely the function of the elite.  And China's ruling elite is second to none in the world today, as the results repeatedly confirm, year after year in the last 30.

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Post time 2006-5-17 05:00:11 |Display all floors

Who died and made you emperor?

Originally posted by tongluren at 16-5-2006 21:43
The immediate problem is not involving more (who are objectively not qualified to make national decisions).


Who says you're qualified to make that observation?

I don't think you should presume to tell people that they don't have a right to choose their own government, especially when you're not even in a place of authority yourself. If you don't think more people need to be involved, then you can go sit in a corner and not participate - but don't try to deny others the opportunity.

[ Last edited by mencius at 2006-5-16 10:03 PM ]
"People are the water, the ruler is the boat; water can carry the boat, but it can also capsize it."

-- Li Shimin (2nd Tang Emperor, "Taizong")

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Post time 2006-5-17 05:08:20 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tongluren at 2006-5-17 04:43

If China is short 500,000 doctors, train 750,000.  If China is short 1.5 million nurses, train 2 million.


Here we go again... that is planned economy. It doesn't work!

Hypothetically speaking: Why is there a shortage of doctors? Well, a doctor in a state hospital has a salary of 2500. Yuan. In Shanghai. That's not much considering the long education, the importance of the job, and not the least the MARKET DEMAND for more doctors...

So, you might as well go whoring instead of educating yourself to a doctor, because it pays better.

Comprende, compadre?

You want growth, and you think growth will continue forever. But I am telling you this: the 200,000,000 migrants who work on construction 12 hours a day 7 days a week for 5 yuan an hour (and being cheated by companies as well as local governments, getting no housing, pension or medicare) will not take it forever. The many saleswomen in shops who stand idle 12 hours a day 7 days a week for 5 yuan an hour will not take it indefinitley.

They have no incentives working harder or improving quality. Therefore the growth will not continue. Too many are left out of the growth. And they can't do antyhing about it, because this SOCIALIST (?) government won't allow for WORKERS' RIGHTS MOVEMENTS or STRIKES and similar SOCIALIST MEASURES for IMPROVING the conditions of WORKERS.
瑞典人,活着为中国娃娃而死。汉学家、工程师、摄影师、网页设计师等等。爱好:政治、历史、科技、文化等。王菲迷。自由主义者。

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Post time 2006-5-17 05:41:23 |Display all floors

Doesn't Work? Who says?

You are wrong.  China's combination of free market plus (plus central planning) works very well - in fact so well that the system has consistently beaten any other system available on earth in the last 30 years.  

Naysayers have said for 30 years that China will failed.  It did not.  The naysayers are wrong. Show me ANY system that has the kind of consistent growth, without major bumps, that China enjoyed in the last 30 years.

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Post time 2006-5-17 06:31:29 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tongluren at 2006-5-17 07:41
You are wrong.  China's combination of free market plus (plus central planning) works very well - in fact so well that the system has consistently beaten any other system available on earth in the last 30 years.    ...


Tongluren, what has worked is the total exploitation of the masses.
Is a Chinese person an equal of a person in the West?
If they are, well why are they paid twenty times LESS than an Australian, American or Briton doing a similar job?

Now it wouldn't be so bad if there was some relativity in cost of living across the board, but the artificially maintained exchange rate (which itself devalues the labour of a chinese worker) and the growing income disparity between rich and poor makes the average Chinese far worse off than his western equivalent.

It is the low exchange rate and therefore the exploitative wages for Chinese workers, which has turned China into the world's factory. This is the major driver of China's growth, the hard work of the poor Chinese workers, not some brilliant economic theory.

JB
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2006-5-17 06:44:56 |Display all floors

Good Question

"Is a Chinese person an equal of a person in the West?
If they are, well why are they paid twenty times LESS than an Australian, American or Briton doing a similar job?"

Good question.  It is because the West unfairly block competition?  Like these trumped up charges of dumping?  

Everywhere and every time there is fair competition, the Western supplier loses.

Emu, you try your brilliant economic theory, or any other mumbo jumbo and see if you can get Australia's economy to grow at a 10% clip - even for just one year.  What's the problem?  Can't do it?  It is not as though God is depriving you lazy bums - all you got to do is dig a hole and you can sell the dirt.  Yet you government just cannot deliver the goods.  Why is that?

Mayhap there is something more than just exchange rates?

In a free trading market without controls, it is more likely that the RMB would FALL 10% a year than rise 10%.

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