Author: matt605

Saddam's trial prosecutors say he killed 148, not 148,000. Just 148. [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2006-3-8 20:11:11 |Display all floors

Reply #36 jonathan85's post

Once again classic smear tactics with no references to back it up
also the classic denial of world media reports.

[quote]Really? You should hang out on the talk to China Daily forum
more often. He has made several jokes about the
holocaust and holocaust  denial, said that Jews have different 'ethical
wiring' to other people, the words 'Zionist' and 'Jew' are synoymous
to him and he has said that  Zionists are worse than scumbags.
In adittion he has made all sorts of unfounded allegations
against Israel
- stating that it was the cause
of the Iraq war
was one of his more 'restrained' claims.
He has said that golda meir was a 'superfacist',
he has said that the Israeli  government intentionally
targets unarmed children and aid workers.[/

The words in red I stand by.the other comments
are either plain lies or false by being distorted out of context.

[ Last edited by christopher_104 at 2006-3-8 08:27 PM ]
Children killed by

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Post time 2006-3-8 21:01:41 |Display all floors
Here we go again...

Proof that he uses the words 'Jew' and 'Zionist' interchangably:

(from the 'an open letter to wowsers thread' - ... age%3D2&page=1)

All you need to do is go to the search page on this forum, put in 'Christopher_104' and type 'Jew'.

Why does he immediately refer to anyone has support for Israel (by defintion, Zionism) as a Jew ?

Why does he always use the term 'Jewish Zionist' ? Why not just Zionist? He often uses the very transparent excuse that he is not an anti-Semite by stating that many Jews are anti-Zionism, so why make an effort to say 'Jewish Zionists' over and over and over again?

Why, In this very thread, does he call it the 'Christian-Jewish alliance' ? Yet in other threads he calls it the 'Christian-Zionist alliance' ?

See the comments on the Christian - Jewish alliance which would
Cover a football field

Again, he calls it the 'Jewish Christian alliance' on page 5 of the 'Should we allow Christianity to make penetrating POLITICAL inroads in China?' thread

This Christian-Jewish new bible belt alliance  
has a direct influence  on USA politics Not so far in china,
at the moment they are pretending to be "just Christians"  but wait!

Proof that he thinks Jews have faulty 'ethical wiring': (from the 'JEWS ARE CHOSEN TO CHOOSE THREAD')

Don't take it too seriously Joe, no anti-Semitism intended BUT everywhere
on earth where Jews are (some Jews not all) get flack about what looks like
different  version of ethical hard wiring in Jews. Meanwhile the Jews
themselves have no bloody idea what the problem is about. So round in
circles we go.

I then remarked to chris, You can't say EVERYWHERE on Earth there are Jews they get flack from non-Jews about not being ethical, and then say 'some Jews not all'. The two statements are completely contradictory. So far I have gotten no response to this.

Proof that he makes jokes about holocaust denial:

After seeing Munich he called himself a 'Munich denier', which was an obvious reference to the holocaust. Once again, he adds 'no anti-Semitism intended'.

Proof that in his twisted mind, the word 'Zionist' is worse than scumbag: ( ... Bzionist&page=2 - see post #18)

I have a bigger insult than scumbag for you厖厖MR ZIONIST

In the same post he calls the person he is arguing with 'Isaac' even though that is not his name.

And notice how he did not even bother responding to any of my other points.

[ Last edited by jonathan85 at 2006-3-8 09:04 PM ]

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Post time 2006-3-9 00:22:28 |Display all floors
You reach a lot to substantiate your claims.

You should hang out on the talk to China Daily forum more often. He has made several jokes about the holocaust and holocaust denial, said that Jews have different 'ethical wiring' to other people, the words 'Zionist' and 'Jew' are synoymous to him and he has said that Zionists are worse than scumbags. In adittion he has made all sorts of unfounded allegations against Israel - stating that it was the cause of the Iraq war was one of his more 'restrained' claims

Can you show me some posts where christopher said Israel had no right to exist, or where he said Jews should be barred from positions of power because they are Jewish, or that Israel somehow acts in ways that other countries do not act?

We live in a world where people can and do say offensive, unpleasant things.

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Post time 2006-3-9 03:05:55 |Display all floors

A very strange stuff

There is a web site, in arabic language, visually designed for kids. I saw it a few hours ago.
On the centre of the main page I saw a cartoon of a Palestinian(?) girl with..I do not know how to call it in english..a forked piece of a wooden branch with a rubber used to throw stones. This is the guidance, the way the owner of this site wants to bring up the children.

The website is targetting small kids. I wanted Chris to have a look at it and comment in the view of tragedy of dying Palestinians kids.
I tried to open it now and all I saw was this:

Ŕęęŕóíň âđĺěĺííî íĺäîńňóďĺí!
Îáđŕňčňĺńü, ďîćŕëóéńňŕ, â ńëóćáó ňĺőíč÷ĺńęîé ďîääĺđćęč.

Andy Dob

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Post time 2006-3-16 00:09:02 |Display all floors
American puppet-Judge makes Saddam trial secret.

The chief judge at the Saddam show-trial has made the proceedings closed and will conduct its justice in secret.  This is a violation of one of the most important principles of justice in the USA.  Often, when the government catches a spy they will be forced to reach a plea agreement because they do not want the secrets disclosed in public court.  So America prizes its open courts so much that the ability to prosecute those who steal state secrets is lessened.  But the trial of Saddam is made secret simply because the Judge doesn't like the words Saddam says.

America did not invade Iraq so that the Iraqis could establish a system of secret court proceedings.

March 15, 2006
Hussein Gives First Testimony, Prompting Closure of Trial to Public
Filed at 10:20 a.m. ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Saddam Hussein testified Wednesday for the first time at his trial, and the judge closed the court after the ex-dictator began a speech calling for Iraqis to end sectarian violence and fight American troops instead.

Even as the judge repeatedly yelled at Saddam to stop making what he called political speeches, the deposed leader read from a prepared text, insisting he was still Iraq's president.

''Let the (Iraqi) people unite and resist the invaders and their backers. Don't fight among yourselves,'' he said, praising the insurgency. ''In my eyes, you are the resistance to the American invasion.''

Finally, Chief judge Raouf Abdel-Rahman ordered the session closed to the public, telling journalists to leave the chamber. The delayed video feed also was cut.

''The court has decided to turn this into a secret and closed session,'' he said.

After nearly two hours, reporters were called back into the court, where Saddam sat alone in the defendants' pen before the judge.

The former Iraqi leader then refused to answer questions from the chief prosecutor, demanding to see a copy of his testimony given to investigators before the trial began. Prosecutors agreed and said they would question Saddam in the next session.

Abdel-Rahman then adjourned the trial until April 5.

Saddam was the last of the case's eight defendants to testify. Though he has spoken frequently since the trial began in October, Wednesday's session was to be the first chance for the judge and prosecutors to directly question him on charges of killing 148 Shiites and imprisoning and torturing others during a 1982 crackdown against the Shiite town of Dujail.

Instead, Saddam -- dressed in a black suit -- read from his statement, insisting he was Iraq's elected president and calling the trial a ''comedy.''

He addressed the ''great Iraqi people'' -- a phrase he often used in his speeches as president -- and urged them to stop the wave of Shiite-Sunni violence that has rocked the country since the Feb. 22 bombing of the Askariya shrine in Samarra.

''What pains me most is what I heard recently about something that aims to harm our people,'' Saddam said. ''My conscience tells me that the great people of Iraq have nothing to do with these acts.''

Abdel-Rahman interrupted, saying Saddam was not allowed to give political speeches in the court.

''I am the head of state,'' Saddam replied.

''You used to be a head of state. You are a defendant now,'' Abdel-Rahman barked at Saddam.

As Saddam continued reading from a prepared text, the judge repeatedly turned off his microphone to prevent his words from being heard and told him to address the charges against him. But Saddam ignored the judge and continued reading from his text.

''You are being tried in a criminal case. Stop your political speech,'' Abdel-Rahman said angrily.

''Had it not been for politics I wouldn't be here,'' Saddam replied.

He went on, urging Iraqis not to fight each other.

''What happened in the last days is bad,'' he said. ''You will live in darkness and rivers of blood for no reason.''

He continued: ''The bloodshed that they (the Americans) have caused to the Iraqi people only made them more intent and strong to evict the foreigners from their land and liberate their country.''

At one point, Abdel-Rahman screamed at him, ''Respect yourself!''

Saddam shouted back: ''You respect yourself!''

''You are being tried in a criminal case for killing innocent people, not because of your conflict with America,'' Abdel-Rahman said.

Saddam responded, ''What about the innocent people who are dying in Baghdad? I am talking to the Iraqi people.''

The stormy session was a stark contrast to the past three hearings, when each of Saddam's seven co-defendants was questioned by Abdel-Rahman and the chief prosecutor.

Saddam and the seven former members of his regime face possible execution by hanging if they are convicted in connection with the crackdown in Dujail following a July 8, 1982, shooting attack on Saddam's motorcade in the town.

Last month, Saddam stood up in court and boldly acknowledged that he ordered the 148 Shiites put on trial before his Revolutionary Court, which eventually sentenced them all to death. But Saddam insisted it was his right to do so since they were suspected in the attempt to kill him.

Before Saddam's testimony, his half brother Barzan Ibrahim -- who headed the feared Mukhabarat intelligence agency at the time of the Dujail attack -- was questioned for more than three hours by the chief judge and prosecutor.

Chief prosecutor Jaafar al-Moussawi showed the court a series of Mukhabarat documents on the Dujail case from 1982 and 1983, some of which bore signatures he said were Ibrahim's. One of them was a memo from Ibrahim's office asking Saddam for rewards for six Mukhabarat officers involved in the Dujail crackdown.

''This is not my signature. My signature is easy to forge, and this is forged,'' Ibrahim said.

He said the same of another document listing Dujail families whose farmlands were razed in retaliation for the shooting. Another document, signed by an assistant to Ibrahim, talked about hundreds of Dujail detainees being held at Mukhabarat headquarters and the notorious Abu Ghraib prison.

Ibrahim said that memo as well was forged.

At the end of Wednesday's session, Abdel-Rahman ordered forensic tests on the signatures to determine their veracity.

In previous sessions, Dujail residents testified that Ibrahim participated in torturing them at Mukhabarat headquarters. One woman claimed Ibrahim kicked her in the chest while she was hung upside down and naked by her interrogators.

But Ibrahim insisted the Mukhabarat was not involved in the investigation into the attack on Saddam and denied any personal role in the crackdown.

''I didn't order any detentions. I didn't interrogate anyone,'' he said, adding that he resigned from the Mukhabarat in August 1983. ''There is not a single document showing that I was involved in the investigation.''

Ibrahim insisted that the General Security agency carried out the Dujail crackdown. He said his only involvement came on the day of the shooting, when he went to the village and ordered security officials to release Dujail residents who had been arrested.

The defense has argued that Saddam's government acted within its rights to respond after the assassination attempt on the former Iraqi leader.

The prosecutor has sought to show that the crackdown went well beyond the authors of the attack to punish Dujail's civilian population, saying entire families were arrested and tortured and that the 148 people killed were sentenced to death without a proper trial.

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Post time 2006-3-16 01:39:54 |Display all floors
Romanians did it quicker. The embarassment was equal , but the happy end much sooner.

Hrushchov did also far better with the problem named Beria.
Andy Dob

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