Author: wchao37

Should we allow Christianity to make penetrating POLITICAL inroads in China?  Close [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2006-2-6 06:19:07 |Display all floors

And SteveO...

a polite discussion?

"Let there be a debate on the nature of Christianity and its so called superiority over all native beliefs ."

Ok.  Go for it.  I'll even say that Christianity is superior to ANY other worldview.  

In regards to all of the ills that "Christianity" has produced or ushered into China, please remember to discuss the practice, not malpractice of said religion.  That means going back to the source of the religion and arguing that they support such behavior.  As an example, I'll counter the claim that Christians are bent on a hidden political agenda.  
John 18:36- Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
Christianity is a religion, not a political system.

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Post time 2006-2-6 06:20:28 |Display all floors

gtnbia argues about false Christianity

Catholicism isn't Christianity?

It could be argued that Catholicism, Orthodoxism, Anglicanism and Protestantism are all "false" forms of Christianity, since the original form of Christianity was Gnosticism, which was completely different from the modern forms.

According to Gnostic belief, the god worshipped by Jews, Christians and Muslims is actually not God at all, but an Aeon, or spirit, created by the real God. This Aeon, named Yahweh (or Jehovah), is regarded as evil, hateful, stubborn, megalomaniacal, self-aggrandizing, and highly prone to genocide.

Unlike the Christians of the Dark Ages, Gnostics were very keen on accumulating knowledge and wisdom, and in their view, the snake in the Garden of Eden was actually God trying to provide Eve with knowledge, but Jehovah wanted to deny it to she and Adam. Unfortunately, the Gnostics lost to the Roman Catholic Church and were purged early on as heretics, with many of their sacred texts being destroyed

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Post time 2006-2-6 06:23:12 |Display all floors

SteveO checks in


The Gnostics "lost" because their beliefs have no basis in actual Christianity.  All of their supposed books of the Bible date to after 2nd Century, whereas all the writing found in the Bible is dated to before 100 A.D.  One of the central beliefs of the Gnostics was that Jesus wasn't acually a physical human, but was instead entirely spiritual.  The book of Colossians refutes the idea with force, saying in Chapter 1, verse 9, "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form". Clearly this was a heresy that arose after Christianity was established and the vast majority of early Christians entirely rejected the idea from the start.

I'd like to challenge you to back up your claims that the Gnostics are the "true" Christians.  Please give evidence that they existed before the Christian group supported the doctrines of the Nicean Creed and please give evidence that Christianity ( based on the Bible ) supports the idea.  I'm very interested to hear your reply.

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Post time 2006-2-6 06:25:28 |Display all floors

juanita says

gtnbia wrote:

According to Gnostic belief, the god worshipped by Jews, Christians and Muslims is actually not God at all, but an Aeon, or spirit, created by the real God. This Aeon, named Yahweh (or Jehovah), is regarded as evil, hateful, stubborn, megalomaniacal, self-aggrandizing, and highly prone to genocide.

You've caught my fancy, gtnabia!

You're saying something like Christians, Jews and Muslims are actually worshipping the devil! Hard to disagree with that...

It's time again, I think, to promote Philip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials'. It takes just this perspective.

[ Last edited by wchao37 at 2006-2-6 04:32 PM ]

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Post time 2006-2-6 06:29:16 |Display all floors

laozhu comes in

What Singapore Did

I believe a similar assault was made in Singapore in the seventies. Subsequently, students in schools over there were required to undergo mandatory moral classes, to be selected from a menu, including Confucianism and Buddhism. I am not sure if there was a correlation between the two.

I believe introduction of such classes in the education curriculum would enable a more open, lively and objective debate on religious believes and their purposes. This would mitigate risks of  religions being made a political tool, an unavoidable issue.

I am seeing a similar wave developing  where I lived and I notice those who are divorced from their their mother tongue and cultural influence are particularly prone to embrace the faith.

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Post time 2006-2-6 06:30:47 |Display all floors

One senior member said -- and it was a long one

As a self confessed creationist, I am also a Christian.

A Christian, should be someone who lives in hope that when push comes to shove, he will be there to defend his God, come what may.

Maybe that is why I find it so easy to deal with the Lions and the Jackals at the same time.

I will agree with whoever posted that the Catholics are not Christians, no doubt about that, they are not Christians.

It would in my opinion be very simple to be agnostic, if all you had to follow was the Catholic Church, it would be even more simple to hate God if the Catholic Church was your teacher.

I would agree that one of if not the most evil entity's on the planet earth is the Pope or at least what the pope represents, even his robes are the color of the devil, the color of evil.

Christians are very close to the Jews, more so than either of them choose to think.

The muslims, well they are not Christians, but again they are more close to the Jews than they think.

Of course I am going to be attacked something terrible for being the lone Christian and the lone creationist, but as there is but one God and as there looks to be no other poster who wished to say anything either on behalf of God or at least in small defense of God, then I guess I elected myself.

Or as God works in mysterious ways, maybe God elected me. ?

The true creationist, the true Christian, is impossible to break, those of you who have been involved in these conversations with me at other times, already know this.

The one poster in here, who I can depict easily as he has wall to wall anti-God posts all over the forum, will go ballistic at the fact that anyone dares to defend God, let alone state that he or she is a Christian.

So be it, do your worst, after all, I have God on my side.

Jews / Christians / Muslims are closer than you or they think, but far apart from each other at the same time.

Catholics are devil worshippers, so delete them from the conversation.

The Chinese are closer to the Jews than many may think, the Chinese and Jews included, the Chinese say there are many Gods but the Chinese also say there is but one God, indeed they are right, there is but one God.

The Chinese could easily be included with the Jews, the Muslims, and the Christians.

The Devil or the anti-Christ has many to speak for him or it, all the posts in this forum and the posts in this topic, show that the devil has many followers and many that will speak or write for him against the one true God, the first and the last, the word.

Jews, they are the closest to God, but yet so far.
Muslims, they are farthest from God, yes so close.
Christians ( that includes me ) they are in between the two above.
The Chinese are probably above the Jews, where God is concerned.

Dear me, what a mess the devil created.

But then, that was his (it's) intention after all, his duty if you like.

Christians are Christians, they follow the one God.
Muslims are Muslims, they follow the one God.
Jews are Jews, they follow the one God.
Chinese are Chinese, they follow the one God.

So, there we have it, the one God followers versus the Devil Cults.

There is but one God, be he the God of David or the God of Abraham, be he the God of Mohammad or the God of Moses, be he the God of all the Chinese, he still is God, the word, the first and the last.

You can all prove to me that there is a devil, many of you write for him and his behalf, there needs no more proof of the devil, many of you are proof enough, proof positive.

But alas, you require proof of the one God, and there is the stupidity of it all, for if there is a Devil, then there must be a God.

The proof so many of you provide that there is evil that there is a devil that there is a very black side, is proof enough that there is a God.

All the creationist, the Christian, the Jew, the Muslim or the Chinese need to prove there is a God, is your proof that there is a devil.

So incredibly simple.

GOD decides all things.

Who said that. ?

GOD decides all things, was it the Jews. ?
GOD decides all things, was it the Muslims. ?
GOD decides all things, was it the Christians. ?
GOD decides all things, was it the Chinese. ?

Yes, it was the Chinese, God decides all things.

Nothing is decided by the devil or his followers, simply nothing.

By extension, the devil is nothing and God is everything.

By the same extension, your fate is decided and has been written.

Your average 100 years of life, from dust to dust.

Insult God if you must, then die.

I for one can see the great humor of it all, quite amusing.

Take your frail 100 years ( if you are lucky to get that much ) after all God decides, not you, take you frail and insignificant 100 years, use it to fill your belly with fine wine and fine food, then die.

My goodness, the waste of it all, and then you die. Back to dust.

Dust versus ever lasting life.

mmm....not let's see, how to choose, dust or life, dust or life......

Hard one isn't it. ?

To the posters who are but dust or yet to be dust, do you really think your opinion matters to those who follow the one God. ?

Of course not, can you sway those from the one God, of course not.

So you preach to who, these last 3 months, well, to yourself, of course.

Trying to force others to follow your empty thoughts and make yourself sleep well at night, in the midst of the dusty future, that holds nothing for you and never will hold anything for you.

Empty lost souls, the souls of the weak, the souls of the devil.

How can he write this. ?

After all, he is a Chinese hardliner.

The match does not fit.

Creationist, Christian, follower of the one God and a hardliner.

There is no match.

But dear me, yes there is, quite so, yes there is.

A perfect match, the simple reality of it all.

Life versus Dust.

I think life has it all and God decides all things.

Now...................the floor is yours.

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Post time 2006-2-6 13:10:49 |Display all floors

Mr. Chao, let me help you out here....

...Religon is an instrument of POLITICIANS...and of state...

It was never meant to be more than for that purpose.....

it is human manipulation......

but man is FREE to use any ICON he long it is good hearted intentions.....based on a slate of values he chooses.....

or what we would call nowadays by seculars, IDEOLOGY....

but the HONG KONG CANTOPOP god of songs...Mr. Hooi said...we have SOLD are controlled by the enviroment you lived in....and the culture chosen by your forefathers...or changed by other great manipulators...

The FREE CHINESE are the most susceptible to such MANIPULATORS with eye for Power, Money "steal the soul" of the FREE and INNOCENT man....

However, there are FREE CHINESE who only take part in such organized religion knowing fully that it is an OBJECT of MANIPULATION. And people who are fooled by the Tyrant want-to-be deserves their slavery....


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