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What biochemist said
What I was trying to say, which you did not capture, is that
the sinitic phenotype that everyone seems drawn to compared
to can be imagined as a bulge in the 2 dimensional
geographic profile of the earth bulging from southern china
close to the myanmar border that close to the border was
highly displacive, what that means is that the people who
were originally close to this group got pushed and shrank,
and some admixed. Those admixes themselves pushed outward,
displacing peoples on their fringes except the tibetian
plateau where wet rice agriculture was implausible.
I did not say the mongols were phenotypically Han, what I
said is there is signficant evidence for recent admixture.
If you look at some of the literature, some spotty groups in
southwestern china appear to be sources mongol HLA as on
occasion certain groups were not displaced by the expanding
bulge. When one gets to mongolia itself, while there is alot
of homogeneity within the mongolian groups, the HLA shows
mutliple regions of recent ancestry and I can show
convincing evidence that SW china, korea/tw aboriginals,
have contributed. On a sort of medium time fraim it is
possible to show there was older contribution from the
middle east and europe, and over the oldest time frames it
appears the korean/tw aborinal links are from austonesia.
The sinitic chinese, S. Han, are different in origin.
1. There are markedly fewer haplotypes that appear to have
come from western eurasia.
2. The haplotypes they have the look as if they might have
come from western eurasia appear to have come through south
3. There is less evidence of a west pacific rim austronesian
origin, and a different compliment of genes shared with
4. A close look at 3 subgroups of taiwan aboriginals and
chinese reveals that in all probability 2000 years ago the
coastal 'chinese' were not actually chinese, but other
ethnic groups. These ethnic groups had more in common with
koreans and japanese than the 'expanding' bulge population.
I strongly suspect after the time of Guang Di there were
migrations of these peoples into taiwan, ryuky, Japan, korea
and other points north.
I can give some exacts here.
The S.Han share alot haplotypes, some of the very long
haplotypes (indicating recent common ancestry) with the
Thai, with vietnamese, with certain indonesian groups. The
have similar haplotypes with tibetian; but the specifics of
those haplotypes reveal a much deeper branching (sister).
As one heads north this very 'popular' asian motives begin
to dilute and by the latitudes of mongolia, orochon, ainu
these patterns are not observed. However patterns observed
in the peoples who lived north of the bulge and are still
living approximately where their ancestors did (because the
microlocales where they live are not suitable for certain
agrarian practices) have haplotypes in common with the
mongols and other peoples to the north. What this means is
that the phenotype represented by the chinese is largely but
not completely the result of an essentially modern
techno/genetic expansion. Mongols were once much similar to
the peoples who lived in china 1000s of years ago, but over
time, these peoples were compressed northward. Therefore
central chinese are probably more representative of southern
chinese 10,000 years ago than modern chinese. Northern
chinese are more representative of central chinese 10,000
years ago relative to modern central chinese, and mongols
are probably more representative of northern chinese 10,000
years ago relative to northern chinese.
So now one gets into a semantics probably, just what is a
chinese and how do mongols fit into this equation.
Chinese represent a rather shallow gradient extending from
burma to mongol northsouth and from uygistan to taiwan
aboriginal eastwest. This shallow gradient is dominated in
the south by a common recent ancestral group, whereas in the
north the southern gradient extends into and admixes with
several groups, a pre-existing gradient. To cut into the
mongol issue as the chinese gradient approaches the
mongolian regions the gradient rapidly changes as if the
mongols represent a barrier to northward propogation of
certain haplotypes. From an east west perspective the same
thing occurs in taiwan/philipines/ryukyu and Japan. It is
beyonf the scope here to discuss the complexities in
So from a genetic point of veiw mongols are not chinese,
but the mongols are not free of recent genetic contribution
from regions in china; however, they are free of genetic
contribution of the major recent expanding groups in china.
Therefore mongols have common ancestry with the pre-han
chinese that were living in-situ.
There has been, until recent times geneflow from highland
regions of asia, in fact there are noted commonalities
between the koreans, orochon, manchu, mongolians, and
tibetians and I posit that at some point this may have been
a part of a long range interacting cluster of people.
Because of its proximity to india, genes from south asia and
middle east can be picked up and carried eastward, though
specific evidence for diffusion is weak.
What about europe. One can tract the european advance with
the HLA DQ set DQ2.5 (DQA1*0501-DQB1*0201) this set appears
to have spread from the western Ilses (at higher
frequencies) or the Basque at lower frequencies. The
settlement of scandavia appears to have been fed from the
west, probably a shrinking glacial-Ireland in response to
deglaciation. The swedes have what appears to be admix
between more or less Irish and eastern european haplotypes
(70 to 30% approximately). And the norse appear to have
carried the DQ2.5 with them whereever they traveled. This
haplotype reaches the eastern turkic republics but does not
significantly reach past the transbiakal region prior to
russian expansion. In essense we can disregard historic
migrations eastward from european peoples.
There is however evidence from more than one prehistoric
migrations. There appears to have been a migration from the
western black sea region eastward. The haplotypes are found
in the Inuit, similar to the Yakuts, and to uygars and these
are found spottily over siberia and in some mongolian
groups. This may be the 'red-haired' people found in western
china that are increasingly discussed.
The older migrations from europe and middle east have
previously been discussed. The haplotypes brought by this
people 'largely' differentiate southern han from mongolians.
Like it or not.