Author: mencius

Chinese restaurant bars Japanese customers - unless they apologise [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2005-7-17 20:05:27 |Display all floors

niulaoye

Well in that case you're saying that there was nothing wrong when white supremacists in America turned blacks away, or forced them to go into other entrances, etc because they had the RIGHT to serve who they wanted.

On the one hand you say he shouldn't do it, but you say he has the right to. He has the right or he doesn't. Other people have the right to do the same, or they don't.

By the way, your examples are irrelevant because a church (or hotel) would NEVER bar someone on account of their race. If they are dressed improperly, then it would apply to all nationalities. That is an acceptable form of discrimination. Refusing to serve someone on account of religion, nationality, etc however is not acceptable.

This is a single case, as I pointed out. But it says something about China if such negative discrimination is allowed - in European countries, the owner would have his licence removed by the local authorities. He would also be sued and probably be forced to hand over money to the plaintiffs. If this is allowed to continue in China (& Japan) then how will relations ever get better? Because I think these kind of establishments will get more common as time goes on, as owners realise it gets them free PR.

Do what the Americans did - outlaw discrimination and boycott places that bar people on racial/religious grounds.

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Post time 2005-7-17 22:24:03 |Display all floors

You can do what you want in China ??

Mencius,
Thank you for adding some brains in this forum, it is nice to read you whatever topic you write about;...
Same thing for Oolala....

Niulaoye,
Just in case i misunderstood  : you are saying that we can do whatever we want in China ?
Well, I just ask because it is not the China I am living in and it is not what I can see here..
Maybe you are talking about an other country with the same name, because if you try to read the laws of this country ( I invite you to do so), just let me know if you find anywhere that you can do or say whatever you want because "you have the right to do so" ...
Indeed, you have the right to THINK what you want ... as long as you keep for you or else (in many cases ).

I see in this forum the words "patriot" or "nationalist' and so on...OK, so just take a dictionnary and have a look at these words.

Niulaoye, you also wrote that the guy is not racist ? Well, read again what Mencius wrote and think about it...
By the way, one person's liberty stops when it hurts someone else !!!
This is precisely what laws are made for : to make it possible that people can live with together without hurting each other...

I believe that what you think is the result of many years of "brainwashing" from the former system of education so I don't blame you for thinking that this is not racism to act the way the manager of the restaurant did, and i have great hope that this formum will help you to slowly change your mind on a few things.

Best regards

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Post time 2005-7-17 22:54:55 |Display all floors

Niulaoye's scenarios

Niulaoye,
"It is the same way as a church refuse visitor dressed improperly according to their standard, and a five star hotel refuse to accept someone they alleged a drunkard. You don’t need to give your scenario, if I come across your examples, my feeling will be: fine, keep your stuff, I have other choices. "
*******************************************************************
Are you sure this has anything to do with what we were discussing above ?
For the church or mosque or temple for that matters, what you say is not true : it is a matter of good manners and mutual respect for a place one wants to visit !
If you don't respect the place you want to visit and the beliefs of the people praying in, then are you sure you really want to visit the place and for what purpose ?
For the five star hotel thing and the drunkard attitude let me just clear something for you : if you have the money to afford it you CAN go in, but if you are a problem for the security of other guests, you will be KINDLY asked (or helped) to go back to your room and have a nice rest.
The managment of the hotel might even send someone to check on you for your own security later.
(In know quite well about this 5* or 4* hotel thing for being working in tourism for VIP clients. numerous time i have seen them coming back from meetings with too much "erguojiu " and being taken care of by the security and hotel staff.
If the hotels in China accept to let so many prostitutes in for the "guests satisfaction", do you really think the managment will tell them to stop drinking ?

See ? your arguments are not about accepting to serve or inviting in other people under conditions, they are once again about not HURTING others by adopting good manners (I know it is difficult in china) and not hurting others because you are out of control.
In both cases there are LAWS AND RULES  : no church, mosque, synagogue or temple can refuse you in if you have good manners, and no hotel has the right to refuse clients as long as you can pay and are not a threat to other guests...

Please give us more of your own scenarios to make  your point beacause  those above did not work.

Hope to read you soon

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Post time 2005-7-18 18:49:06 |Display all floors

Mencius and Luoanna

You are forcing me to reply. In fact I have said that it is improper, but I don’t want to lock into the question whether it is racism or not.

Do not bring your law into ours. Our laws need to be developed, but it is not necessary in your way. You can encourage law suites to keep the lawyers busy, we need lawyers to maintain law and order.

I can give you a few examples, and let you think about it.

The famous Peninsula Hotel in Hong Kong had refused a Filipino gentleman, because he was not dressed properly as judged by the Hotel. However it turned out the man was a guest speaker of a forum held in the hotel, and he was dressing in top gear according to Philippine costume. This happened in the colonial time under British administration.

The other example was experienced by myself. I was on a trip in Japan and missed the last train. hence ended up in a small town. I tried to look for accommodation. I tried six hotels before I can get a rest. Whenever I start asking, the hotel lady just shook their hands and showing sign of refusal.

Later my Japanese friend explained. Their refusal may not mean discrimination. But since they do not speak the language, the easiest way to avoid trouble is not to accept a foreigner guest.

It is easy to accuse the restaurant owner in Jilin. But if we take the Japanese example, I can easily make excuse, that he is just trying to avoid trouble. A Japanese guest after making apologize will be a friend, so it will avoid conflict with other guests in the restaurant. Can it be that way?

Obviously I do not think so. But I don’t think his action should be classed as racism.

We have a difference point of view on interpretation. But I would rather keep it between us. So, Mencius, if you still wish to throw stone, go somewhere else.

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Post time 2005-7-18 21:03:36 |Display all floors

I agree with you

dear Niulaoye,

I agree totaly with you : chinese laws must develop and they are !!
I don't say it should be in a western way though....even if there are different "western ways" and not only the American way as many chinese think (it is still amazing so many people in China think that France's, Spain's etc..native language is English and that our own language is only a dialect !!).

As i said before I love China this is why I made a choice to live there and sometimes I am proud of this country as if it was my own (can you believe that ?)
Yes indeed when i talk about China to my clients, family or friends back in europe I say ! "yes but in China we have this, and in China we do that" as if I was chinese myself....

Let's get back to the subject of the laws : of course china will find its own way as it did before for communism !!
As far as I know this is the only (former?) communist country with such an economic level, education and employment rate !!
This country did great and continue to do so !

Many people here (China) are not ready to see a big change happening too fast and in that case I think it is good that the government holds the country tight otherwise it would be a desaster !
Things take time and are slowly changing for the best !

Thank you for your great country and thank you to accept a free dialogue with all of us non-chinese

Regards

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-7-19 01:18:41 |Display all floors

Discrimination

Niuloye,

Mencius isn’t trying to throw stones; he’s just responding to one of the various “I hate the Japanese and this is why…” manifestos on this forum that made the claim about discrimination in Japan and the lack of which in China.

I agree with you though, this isn’t a case of racism, since racially the Chinese are about as different from the Japanese as the French are from the Brits. But it is discrimination based on national origin.

As an ethnic Chinese grew up in the United States, I know first hand how distasteful discrimination is, and I wouldn’t want to wish it on anyone. Let me present a similar scenario to what that restaurant owner did in Jilin. An Anglo-American restaurant owner decided that before entering his establishment, every person of Chinese origin is required to apologize for the hundreds of thousands of American casualties in the Korean War (a war started by North Korean aggression and with covert and then overt Chinese support) and the wanton theft of American intellectual property in China (a valid accusation).

To that demand, my first reaction would’ve been, “f**k you.” In addition, the moment someone reported this SOB to the municipal authorities, law enforcement would’ve come down on him like a ton of bricks. Discrimination is what tears apart social fabric. With the world becoming increasingly integrated, we have to be conscious of the global social condition as well. Thus, our condemnation of discrimination should be universal instead of selective.

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