Author: thelaststraw

why don't you japanese ppl understand? [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 4

Post time 2005-7-15 21:06:48 |Display all floors

i think what they mean is

they are pissed at the japanese govt recent attitudes towards the past hence u see a recent upsurge of anger from china korea etc..in recent months it wasnt like this before the start of 2005

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-7-16 15:40:57 |Display all floors

If I were you, I will choose to apologize seriously and sincerely to every chine

For Christ's sake, with Chinese population of 1.2+ billion, this is gonna take a while...

It would seem that people on this forum really enjoy beating a dead horse, with just about every thread being a personal manifesto of "I hate the Japanese and this is why ..."

Ok, you guys hate the Japanese, the rest of us got the message (1,000 threads ago).

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Post time 2005-7-16 17:00:41 |Display all floors

Oolala

I can tell you are wrongly guided by you government and your media.

If you keep talking on Chinese propaganda is the reason for Sino-Japanese hatred, you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

As a Chinese reading Chinese newspaper everyday, I can tell you our government talked of Sino-Japanese friendship more often than WW2 history. We have more such talks before, but it become less nowadays, because the Japanese are not friendly.

I can tell you, Daioyutai issue started from overseas Chinese. At that time, although we learned about the fact, most of us remained calm, as our government made us believe Japan is a friend.

Of course we were taught of Japanese war crime, it is history and real fact. It will be a crime if we do not tell our children the fact. Think about what you have done to our country. The memory will last many generation, no money can buy it. Even if our government order all school stop teaching, the story will still past on.

Do give excuse it is normal for killing and rape in a war, think about why there was a war, an invasion in the first place. Who give you the right to come to China? The right wingers in your country know about how serious is this question, and they are trying in everyway to maintain they have good reason for invading others. Just a few days ago, a guy in Tokyo even said, because Chinese and Korean were weak, then they deserved to be invaded. Are you trying to give the same excuse? Is you think so, just tell me, then I don't need to talk with you any more.

As a people from a country who did the crime, you would like to think the story was not true, so you keep believing those ‘studies’ denying. But for your friend, a people from the country that suffer, he do not need to read those stuff, because he was told many times the story witnessed by his father, grandfather and other senior citizens. Should you want to know the truth, I will suggest you come to China, and listen to the old people’s stories before the generation pass away. If you cannot come, you should be able still to find the details, such as articles written by former imperial soldiers who truly regret to their crime, but these kind of documents are just so few in Japan.

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Rank: 1

Post time 2005-7-16 20:23:42 |Display all floors

re

Thank you for your sincere reply.  You made me think.

Maybe you are right, maybe I was right also.  Both of the insights have been for a fact discussed outside of China and Japan as well.  Personally I am not yet sure of the truth and which idea is right.  Since the Chinese government does not appear to be trustable enough, I have a hard time believing what they and their people say.

In Japan the old generation which was actually involved in WWII, they never open their mouth to talk about their experiences and ideas.  They are very very silent people now.  So, none of us (people younger than 60) grew up hearing their stories, unlike Chinese people.  That's what is keeping the discussions ungoing..  For people in Japan, things like Nanking massacre is something like folklore which nobody really knows about and something rather unreal because we can't even imagine what happened there such a LONG ago.  Honestly I believe that's the impression all we Japanese have about it.

So therefore you might be right, there might be something going on about erasing the history etc in Japan..  Im not sure.

But the thing is, WHY IS CHINA SO HOT ABOUT IT NOW?  Why now? And why not before?  Hasn't it been too long since then?  Bringing up about WWII in politics nowadays is so WEIRD, not only in Japan, but in any countries.  I just can't understand the logic behind it.  NOBODY in this world understands China's intention!!


Btw. regarding the reason of invasion, interesting topic, and I would like to share my thoughts on it without limiting the object into the Japanese emperor.
You said somebody in Tokyo said it was about some countries deserving to be invaded(for whatever the reasons are) and others deserving to invade them.
Surely I do not agree with that idea.
But my idea might sound a little close to that (but totally different, so please dont confuse.)
It's all about power.  When one has a great power, he naturally desires to use it and feel better about himself.  It's human nature.  Other countries that were invaded, poor luck, they simply didn't have that great power.  But if they did have the great power that surpassed other countries, then they would have surely did the same thing.  China, England, Japan, Germany, America.. All the same.  They had the power to do it, so they did it.  It's really simple.  

And as for Japan, she thought she had the power enough to conquer the whole earth, but that was reckless.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-7-17 00:44:00 |Display all floors

Oolala

I feel sorry of what you said, you idea can be simply condensed into two English words: jungle law. If most Japanese think it that way, that is exactly what we worry.

When you keep talking NEW Japanese opinion, think about it, have you changed? How comes you are agreeable to jungle law?

I can tell you why we were not hot about Rape of Nanjing and similar facts before. We know about it long ago, and we have told these stories many time. But when most Japanese we met at that time were more sincere (unfortunately those we met were mostly left wingers and friends), we wouldn’t talked about it in front of Japanese friends, it is not necessary to upset friends.

When Japanese (especially Japanese government) are more and more unfriendly, you cannot stop us to become hot on this subject. In Chinese we say, when you allow me a foot, I allow you a yard in return. But if you are aggressive, we have no alterative but to hit back.

It is not true Japanese old people never talked about their war time experience. I have seen the book published by Asahi Shimbun, a collective work from many old folks about their personal experience. There are book written by anti-war groups formed by ex-Imperial soldiers. There are novels on Japanese using life human for bio-chem experience. I think you should be able to find those documentary articles more readily than us, if you wish to. Only that you do not want to see them as they are in contradiction to your opinion. Then, it is just too bad.

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Rank: 1

Post time 2005-7-17 14:13:51 |Display all floors

re

Thank you for your sincere reply.  You made me think.

Maybe you are right, maybe I was right also.  Both of the insights have been for a fact discussed outside of China and Japan as well.  Personally I am not yet sure of the truth and which idea is right.  Since the Chinese government does not appear to be trustable enough, I have a hard time believing what they and their people say.

In Japan the old generation which was actually involved in WWII, they never open their mouth to talk about their experiences and ideas.  They are very very silent people now.  So, none of us (people younger than 60) grew up hearing their stories, unlike Chinese people.  That's what is keeping the discussions ungoing..  For people in Japan, things like Nanking massacre is something like folklore which nobody really knows about and something rather unreal because we can't even imagine what happened there such a LONG ago.  Honestly I believe that's the impression all we Japanese have about it.

So therefore you might be right, there might be something going on about erasing the history etc in Japan..  Im not sure.

But the thing is, WHY IS CHINA SO HOT ABOUT IT NOW?  Why now? And why not before?  Hasn't it been too long since then?  Bringing up about WWII in politics nowadays is so WEIRD, not only in Japan, but in any countries.  I just can't understand the logic behind it.  NOBODY in this world understands China's intention!!


Btw. regarding the reason of invasion, interesting topic, and I would like to share my thoughts on it without limiting the object into the Japanese emperor.
You said somebody in Tokyo said it was about some countries deserving to be invaded(for whatever the reasons are) and others deserving to invade them.
Surely I do not agree with that idea.
But my idea might sound a little close to that (but totally different, so please dont confuse.)
It's all about power.  When one has a great power, he naturally desires to use it and feel better about himself.  It's human nature.  Other countries that were invaded, poor luck, they simply didn't have that great power.  But if they did have the great power that surpassed other countries, then they would have surely did the same thing.  China, England, Japan, Germany, America.. All the same.  They had the power to do it, so they did it.  It's really simple.  

And as for Japan, she thought she had the power enough to conquer the whole earth, but that was reckless.

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Rank: 1

Post time 2005-7-18 17:28:48 |Display all floors

the power of reconciliation is Great

To Thelastraw,
What you wrote is really what you think ? I am so sorry for you that your heart is so full of hate... How can you look into the future if your heart is focused on the past ? How can you live happily if you like the open an old wound to see yourself bleeding ?

I will just give you to read what a few persons (including me wrote about an other topic :

From Luoanna
“Do chinese really want to blame a 2 years old japanese baby, a 10 years old japanese kid, a 30 years old japanese guy or woman for crimes that A FEW or their ancestors have comitted in China ?
I am French and my two grandfathers have died during WW2 in labor camps in Germany where they were war prisonners (they were no jews but what's the difference ??).
Do i have to blame all the germans for that ??? NO AND I TELL YOU WHAT !! I EVEN HAD A GERMAN BOYFRIEND and my GRANDMOTHERS HAVE WELCOMED HIM IN THEIR HOMES AS A SON for the time we have been together !!”

From Mencius
“I agree. I'm a Roman Catholic and part Irish - I hate the Irish Republican Brotherhood (the IRA's ancestors) because they recked Ireland's one chance of happiness when they started the Easter Uprising and the following Civil War. But I don't hate all people from the Republic of Ireland, nor would I force them to apologise for something they didn't do. At the same time, I don't hate Protestants because some of them treated Catholics badly.

My neighbour was a chindit and fought the Japanese in WWII. He was captured and spent the rest of the war in a POW camp. But he never hated all Japanese. He found it difficult but he went back to Japan before he died. He said he had a great time seeing how fighting in the war had been worth it, because he saw how Japan had turned into a successful democracy. I was greatly touched by his humanity and sense of forgiveness. This is one reason why I get very annoyed if people start to bully all people for something their ancestors did - if he could forgive the Japanese, then why do people who were never born during WWII, let alone hurt by the Japanese, demand anything from them?”

From Blueingreen
“There are many lessons that we can learn from the German, French, and South Africans to get past this hurtle in Sino-Japanese relations. The most important of which is a bilateral commission, similar to the one setup between France and Germany, to discuss and settle upon a mutually-agreed version of history. Only then can both sides come to terms with their own historical responsibility thus allowing for a new integrated social and political structure in Asia. This is the best hope and the necessary starting point for Sino-Japanese relations. Let's not forget the fact that the road to European integration was paved by the reconciliation of France and Germany, a relationship with a history as bloody and contentious as any. The unity between these two countries has produced a Europe whose economic and political power is currently challenging and has the potential to replace the United States.”

Just think about that my friend, and as i believe you live in China, just go on the street, buy the DVD "the country in my Skull" and watch it on or too times just to make sure you understood everything (this is what i did ).

You will see that forgiving poeple make you stronger than the people you blame and make it possible to create something really strong !!!

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