Author: bendent

hey come here chinese ppl [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 1

Post time 2005-7-18 22:15:48 |Display all floors

To Liangzai

I like what you wrote above about looking down on nationalism etc...
an d what follws in particular : " And for the record, I am not very proud of my home country, and I rarely identify myself with that or any other country. I am not a nationalist, and I identify myself with ideas, ideas of universality, of freedom, of pluralism, of progress, of peace."

This is the first time I see someone sharing the same values as mine.
Usually people don't understant my pont of view :
One day i was discussing with some people (a guy from Israel and a chinese taxi driver) and both told me their hatred for some other peole (no need to tell which, everybody will guess). T
They were saying that they could die for their country and bla bla bla and it made me think : "Could I ??"
Could I die for France ?
My answer is NO : i could die to defend human beings, to defend ideas of freedom etc....but not for a country !
What if (as it almost happened because french are too lazy to go to vote) we had a President racist, anti-europe, anti-gays, anti-jewish ant-women 's right to work and to vote etc....
Then, I am sorry but this would not have been my country anymore, not the country I believe in, not the coutry of the values I was taught to respect !

Thank you for writting such nice things Liangzai, I am glad to see that on this forum some people or doing a little bit more than throwing stones at each other.

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Rank: 1

Post time 2005-7-18 22:53:54 |Display all floors

Dear Mengzhi,

When some of your friends give you advice about your new grilfriend/boyfriend, about the color that suits you most, about your boss that they might think is exploiting you etc.... Do you tell them to get lost ? That you need nobody's advice ??

Well, the funny thing is that on this forum when your western friends give  advice it is not to boss China around but usualy on the contrary to say : "don t make the mistakes we made" !!
What is wrong about that ?
Do you think that making mistakes that could have been prevented is good for China because China don't need advice ?

I think that a person needs some advice from others to grow up, and so do countries !!

YES China is powerful, YES its economy is great...but indeed as somebody wrote what will happen when the average economic level will be too high, the workers too expensive and when the foreign AND chinese companies will relocate to India or Africa ?
Indeed, do you think China will not face the problem of unemployment ?

Just look at what is happening right now in the country : many companies from Hong Kong decided to move to Shanghai because it was cheaper there and Shanghai is a big ultra-modern City too.... Then again Shanghai is becoming Too expensive , so the same companies pack again and go to Beijing, Xi'An, Wuhan and so on....
What will happen when it will be too expensive Everywhere ?

It is not a problem of foreigners giving advices or not, it is a problem that are foreseing economists !!
And sure you need foreigners my friend ! As much as they need you but maybe you are not yet aware of that because China has only been open but recently ?
Ask people of North Korea if they need foreigners (even Chinese for that matters).... They will tell you that they need nobody beacause they are absolutely sure that the situation is worse in the other countries and that they are sooooo lucky to have their Great General !!!

And why would they believe otherwise when they are told so everyday of their life...

Think about that Mengzhi my Dear Chinese friend...

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-7-20 12:27:36 |Display all floors

Advice is good, preaching is bad.

luoanna :  welcome to this our humble forum where hopefully we can exchange ideas and discuss things with our foreign friends. I agree with you entirely with regards to friendly advice. I just do not agree with you with those ' holier than thou ' lectures.

China has, over the past 200 years, had nothing but advice from the Western countries and Japan. These colonialists have physically come and lived here. They have given us the benefit of their wisdom whether we wanted them or not. They have insisted that we smoke opium to allowing them trade concessions. They have advised us that if a foreigner commits a crime against a Chinese, this foreigner can only be judged by his/her own court !! We have advice and advice and we have had it, up to our eyeballs. If you have any good advice you are welcomed to offer it, lectures we can do without, for a long time to come. Cheers.

Confucius said " Do as I do, not just do as I say."

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2005-7-20 15:43:21 |Display all floors

Re: Advice is good, preaching is bad.

猛蜘, you are so silly. You are picking injustices commited by imperial powers 150 years ago to justify your hatred to anything foreign. At that time there were no international agreements of the kind we have today, and so anything went. This has been true of China in the past as well ("give us tribute or we will invade you"), just like it has been true of every nation.

The reason foreigners at that time demanded their citizens be tried by their own courts is because China didn't have any justice system worth the name. Few Western people would agree to working abroad without protection from 野蛮 practices in native territory.

And although the opium trade of course was wrong (by concidence the same thing happens today to those powers who traded opium, but the drugs come from Latin America instead, creating havoc in their societies) the very principle of making demands for trade is sound. Most nations will not sell weapons to China because of territorial disputes, promise of violence in certain conflicts, and the remarkably low standards of human rights. I guess a certain island off the straits is also looking in vain for buying Chinese weapons...

Likewise, North Korea will not be able to have economic aid and technical assistance to master the energy crisis until they dismantle their nukes and make peace with the rest of the world. This is very sound and certainly not preaching, because that very country is a threat to every one of its neighbor. I think Beijing agrees. Is the world preaching to North Korea? Shouldn't they be left alone?

Another example, the whole world is adhering to the one China policy, except for a few dozen banana republics. Both Chinese parties have resorted to questionable trade conditions in order to get these insignificant countries to support their respective views.

That is how the world works, son. No one is an isolated island.

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-7-21 06:12:52 |Display all floors

Spectacular spinner from Sweden.

If there is a gold medal for political spin , Sweden surely has a firm grasp on it ! Your valiant and sophisticated efforts to justify the unjustifiable is certainly impressive. But sorry my friend they do not wash.Let me say that I am not against everything foreign ; you may be able to detect that I have had some exposure to Western education and culture.

150 years in history is but a miniscule time frame. To sweep aside every principle of justice, liberty and democracy when it suits your lot and then insist on the practice of the same principles ( by others )when it suits again is the summit of hypocrisy with a capital "H".

Your arguments are too flawed to deserve individial rebuttal. Let me take just one case in point to demonstrate. North Korea, you screamed with righteous indignation, should be collared and made to abandon their nuclear program. Why?? Why should there be a double standard as to who should or should not have a nuclear bomb. May I remind you, my learned Swedish friend, that there are 2,500 or more nuclear warheads in the world, the bulk of them are in the hands of USA and Russia. To lecture N.Korea to the evils of possessing these weapons is what ' speaking with fork tongue ' is about. Moreover the USA is the only nation in history who has killed hundreds of thousands of civilians with her atomic bombs. Why is her licence to hold such weapon not withdrawn ?

Confucius said " Clean up your backyard before complaining about your neighbours' garden '

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