Author: mpc1999

Why is it wrong to visit the Yasukuni Shrine !! [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 4

Post time 2005-4-23 13:53:37 |Display all floors

please see above

<quote>If you have a good intention to tell us what you think we might not know some special thing in Japanese,</quote>

here it is above.
Hope you don't think I'm being ruder by posting that ;)

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Post time 2005-4-23 14:00:53 |Display all floors

mpc1999

Fair enough, make better sense.

Now my question is - it seems Japanese have different interpretation on "shrine" than rest of the world, and you even have "cellphone shrine" , and "credit card shrine", then why don't have a "war criminal's shrine"?

The feeling of other nations is not worth to mention?

Remember, if you want to be respected, respect the others first.

Btw, you mean the war criminals brought peace to Japan?

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Post time 2005-4-23 14:33:40 |Display all floors

Grad now it's a little more clear.

See? you will never know what's lost in translation.

I hope you are not suggesting the Yasukuni shrine be renamed to "war criminals shrine"?

The dead buried there are not just the war criminals and includes many civilians that were killed
under US bombings on the mainland Japan.

Leaving that aside, the shrine is no longer a just place to remember and morn the dead, but now it has
far more important rules of commemorating Japan's anti-war anti-violence stance.

Why do you think that hurts the feelings of other nations?
Isn't Japan not being sincere enough, by clearly declaring to de-arm and keeping the words for 60 years?

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Post time 2005-4-23 15:00:23 |Display all floors

mpc1999

I am not sure you truly don't understand what I wrote, or you just behave the same way as other few Japanese here - cover up and pretend don't know -- here I have no offensive intention.

Let me repeat what I have wrote in clearer way:

1. Japanese interprete "SHRINE" differently from rest of the world, according to what you told me.

2. Japan's neoghbor, also war victims, interprete "shrine" in normal way, which is the same as rest of the world. So when the Japanese PM keep worship the war criminals, IT IS TRUE INSULT TO THESE NATIONS, and provoking the peace in this region. Clear enough for you?

3. Why don't Japanese government respect that rest of the world is different from Japan, that everyone else believe it is a serious insult to war victims. A very simple thing to do is, remove the war criminals out of there, and build another one, it can be called - "WAR CRIMINAL'S SHRINE", and the Japanese officials should keep away from there and have no problem to worship the real war victims in Yasukuni Shrine.

Why a very simple thing become so difficult? Isn't it a reasonable requist?

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Post time 2005-4-23 15:13:59 |Display all floors

Reply:

"Isn't Japan not being sincere enough, by clearly declaring to de-arm and keeping the words for 60 years?"

Well, I hope we could feel the same way, but the Japanese government keep telling us that the war crimes is "not worth to mention", and creats disputes with China, Korea, and Russia, provok China's soverignity over Taiwan, and want to become a "normal" country, and your defense budget keep reminding us that Japan has built-up a huge armed force, which has most advanced air force, and navy, which surly not only for "self-defense" -- what is the neccessaty to built-up such a armed force for "defense"?

Again, I have to remind you, if you want to be respected, respect the others first. Japan behaves rude and inrresponsible in East  Aisa - here I think I don't need to mentioned what Japan has done in past 10 years. The most important to Japan and Japanese is not complain the neighbors, not cry to anyone, the first thing Japan needs to do is behave yourself and respect the others.

Remove the war criminals from the shrine, isn't very simple?

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Post time 2005-4-23 16:30:33 |Display all floors

I don't think the matter is that simple.

luf2004,

I think I understand you okay, but I see problem in us having a difference in background
and the way of thinking. but the gap is getting closer through this meaningful conversation,
let's get through it one by one and I think we'll get there one day.
And no, it is not that simple to just remove the war criminals, for long reasons that I try to explain.

1. I don't think the Japanese view on the word has any dramatic difference to yours or world's,
but what's confusing is the fact the shrine is, for the corroborative fact that millions
have died during war, and it should not be repeated.
It enshrines an event that took place in history, and not just for the bodies buried underneath.

2. I differ to you on the view that it may or may not be an insult, depending on how you look at the issue.
I am NOT saying that Chinese people should accept everything the Japanese
way, but hoping for some understanding of our culture, and definetely
NOT an wrong understanding that the Japanese have enshrined them
thinking they are in any way good, nor great, because they are not.
The crimes they commited (murder, rape) are no doubt wrong, and every Japanese knows it.
More on this after next.

3. Digging up and separating the demoted few, has other religious complications,
leaving the physical difficulty aside.

This illustration might seem a bit radical, but how would you feel if you wake up one day, to realize
the house right next to yours have been decided illegal or rude, and without prior notification to you,
they then start a massive dig up project for months to come?

It might sound silly, but the dead are dead for many reasons.
One thing you can't do is communicate with them, hence no asking for permission.

This is the reason why the Japanese are so reluctant to move any landmarks that are said to be
providing a resting place for dead souls. They might even come back if treated wrongly(!)
You wouldn't want Japan to wake up in her imperial-times-self would you?

That's why the Japanese are so desperate to find other ways of displaying
their remorse and sincerety. And by keeping the promise to de-arm and
assisting all Asian nations via ODA funds, and keeping all the promises to the United Nations,
I think Japan is not doing too bad. I am not saying you should be greatful to
everything Japan does, nor that the money can buy whatever she wants, but is a little more
respect in this prospect of cultual and religious view a little too much too ask?
Is Japan still showing absolutely no respect to her Asian neiboughers?
Is the shrine only thing that makes Japan a bad girl in Asia?

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Post time 2005-4-23 16:32:25 |Display all floors

little off topic, but here I write

Besides, those dead civilians buried among them probably also have each individual views of the
imperial commanders who lead the country into war. Some might be angry,
some might be pity, only dead knows.
Wouldn't it be more constructive for all the dead to stay in one place,
so that they can discuss matters as much as they need, in their own time?
That way they may be able to come to draw their own conlusions from the war,
while us the living get on with our own.

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