Author: joe_ng29

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Post time 2004-11-13 08:49:32 |Display all floors

Survival of the fittest?

Joe, you mentioned the allele or whatever it is that predisposes the Africans to sickle cell anemia.  But from what I remember of biology class (also, many years ago), that same allele provides protection against malaria -- a very real danger in tropical climates.  So perhaps, as Seneca surmised, environment plays an important role in the evolution within a species/race/whatever -- even when it comes to congenital "defects" which might not be so defective after all.

And white devil -- you mentioned the "tragedy" of the white race dying out.  Would this be so tragic???  Wouldn't it once again be survival of the fittest?  Aren't you the one in another thread that championed the moral superiority of the Asian women in China, Korea, etc. over the Western women?  So what's so bad about the "morally inferior" race dying out?

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Post time 2004-11-13 08:57:25 |Display all floors

allele and malaria

Different phenotypes?
Perhaps this might help jog your memory?

References
===========
http://www.bio.indiana.edu:16080/courses/s318-Lively/S318/lecturexxiii/lecturexxiii.html

Addendum
==========
A more indepth discussion from the Center for Disease Control
[quote]
It is believed that the high frequency of the (Hb S) variant is maintained in these populations by the increased resistance to malaria infection in heterozygous carriers, those individuals who possess one copy of the normal beta globin gene (Hb A) and one copy of the sickle variant (Hb S).
[unquote]
http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/hugenet/reviews/sickle.htm

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Post time 2004-11-13 09:12:22 |Display all floors

beholder

I repost this segment for your convenience, obviously you didn't read it.

Some geneticists believe eventually there might be different species of human beings who cannot inter-breed. Something akin to a mule. A horse can mate with a donkey to breed a mule, but a mule cannot breed with another mule - well, it would be very difficult indeed
Don't worry about it, not worth losing sleep over.

References
==============
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/mule.html
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/09/05/1094322639127.html?from=storylhs

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Post time 2004-11-13 09:50:52 |Display all floors

You've got me all wrong

Yes. that's it ...sickle cell anemia and heterozygote advantage. yes karen, u just said it yourself. the environment plays a big part in evolution...i'm not saying we are all different. i am just saying that prententious people who like to go around saying there is no such things as "races" and that we are all the same are wrong! Are we different species? NO. But are there inherent genetic differences b/w peoples who so obviously have evolved under very different environmental conditions? YES. If you want to call these different peoples "races" ok! Oh by the way Karenb...white women are not weaker or less desirable than asians....it's just some losers somehow develop some strange preference which i don't agree with. You like the person you like the person. but if you're going to go out of your way to meet people based on their race then i say you're shallow.(oh, but races don't exist then how can some men prefer asian women there should be no such thing).

Those geneticists that claim there will be a human species that will be akin to a mule are radical scientists or are not scienttist at all. For that to happen, a certain group of humans would have to be isolated from the rest of the world for the next million years.

edit....okay...the thing about natural selection and evolution that is mis conceived is that 1: the forces of natural selection doesn't not choose the fittest organism..just the ones that have the better chance of survival in a given environment...in another environment...these so called fittest may in fact be the weakest. Natural selection does not apply to human beings b/c human civilization has all this other sociological and "humanistic" crap that complicates nature. I highly doubt that white devil said that karen...he seems like the type that would proclaim the superiority of the white (dare i say) "race" and that would likely include the women. Anyway, no one can discredit the missing enzyme in east asians eh? told ya so! cest moi if you could be so kind...

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Post time 2004-11-13 17:01:17 |Display all floors

to karenb

Karen, as for your “White race dying question”:

Since I’m White, of course I feel that the extinction of the White race would be a tragedy.

I do believe that the oriental has genetic traits the make them superior to Whites for at least the following reasons:
1) higher average IQ
2) tend to be more monogamous
3) less inclined be perform acts of criminal behavior

But I also believe that the White race has the following traits:
1) highest number of true genius
2) more creative
3) physically stronger  
4) more compassionate, humane, tolerant

So even though White may be “morally inferior” to the oriental I believe the world gains by their existence.  

Now I believe that the first three traits are true for the following reasons:
-        there has been significant statistical analysis
-        there are very convincing socio-biology theories to explaining these points
-        they reflect in what I see in my day to day experience


The fourth trait for White is the one that is the hardest to accept.  There is just not enough evidence to accept it as much more then conjecture.  I know that many will not accept because they will say the horrible Whites owned slaves, and the evil Whites did this or that in the past.  But I’m trying to discern a pattern.  

Is there any reason to believe it is true?  Maybe.   Has any race ever voluntarily aloud their countries to be over run by no members of other races.  Is there anything like it in history?  Where else has democracy, liberalism, enlightenment originate except in White nations. Many Whites have no problem adopted children of other races.  What about the amount of money given to charities that help other races. The free health care for illegal immigrants.  The 24/7 support of somalis, hmong, and some vietnames.
The generosity of the White race is truly remarkable.  

Assume it is true that Whites are more compassionate, humane, tolerant.  What are the implications?  The more tolerant Whites allow their countries to be over run by coloreds.  The colored enter the White countries and set up their on little colored sectors in various parts of the White countries.  Maybe over time, this colored sectors will demand autonomy.  And the tolerant Whites will say, Ok, it is only fair the hispanics, oriental, and blacks have autonomy for themselves.  After all, they should be able to “protect” and own customs, religions, and languages.  Anyway, you can see where this situation would lead.

I think it is very possible this could happen.

Just consider Indian reservations.  Many will say that Indian were a special case. True.  But affirmative action was a special case for the blacks.  But now, some form of affirmative action exists for all coloreds in America.  Even the children of millionaire coloreds that just arrived in America now qualify for affirmative action.  

I can go on and on about what Whites are willing to tolerate, like the tax burden of over 10 million illegal hispanics.

So, what is my point?  If there such thing a tolerant gene, those carrying it would be destroyed by those who did not carry this gene.  Those who carried it would be at a disadvantage if something else did not override the tolerant gene.  The tolerant gene is a self destructive gene if it does not exist in isolation.

So how would this tolerant gene or compassion gene come enter the White population?  Some would say it was evolutionary product of Whites living through the ice age.  Life was harsh and food was scarce.  As a group only Whites that learned to cooperate and share could survive in such harsh conditions.

Now, go back to what you said about sickle cell and malaria.  In the area where black evolved the sickle cell was a positive trait.  It made survival possible.  Outside the condition where black evolved, the sickle cell becomes deadly.  

Using the same line of reasoning, the traits the Whites have as a result of surviving trough ice ages may be very deadly in a modern world where population can move about so easily. The White are being overly tolerant of the coloreds within their countries.  

This is a very interesting topic though I know others will freak out.  I’m not just saying intelligence is genetic, I’m saying traits like compassion, tolerance, … are also genetic.

I will make one more point.  It seems interesting that White and north eastern oriental seem to be rather compatible.  Why is this?  They look rather different.  Come from places with different culture, religions, language.  Significantly different levels of wealth.  Why do White seem to get along with orientals more then they seem to get along with arabs, semetics, turkish, hispanics, blacks, … who in some cases Whites have lived much closer to for thousands of years.

Finally, the point…

Whites and oriental evolved in more similar climates.  To some degree they had to developed (i.e. evolve) more similar traits in order to survive in cold climates.   Therefore they are more compatible.

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Post time 2004-11-13 17:21:03 |Display all floors

Higher IQ's ?

BOLLOCKS!

Bear in mind that on average, only the most resolute make it to the USofA. Immigration policies would exclude the low IQ Chinese.  Also the samples they took were not representative. Have you factored in the socio-economic status in such a sampling ?

However based on NYC samplings, I do concur that Asians, especially Chinese, are collectively amongst the highest achievers and take the fight to the "whites" in New York.

This is NOT to say the Afro-Americans and Hispanics are less intelligent. I maintain that the result is inconclusive and does not prove or underpin your assertion.

I can draw a circle with a one mile radius in Boston, MA, centered around MIT, and proclaim that the average IQ is representative of the IQ of Americans.   Likewise, I can take the average IQ of the population in Tsinghua University and claim that it is representative of Chinese IQ.

You know they are not.

I hope this is not  a DIY "racial profiling" exercise!

Phfffffffft !

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Post time 2004-11-13 17:41:58 |Display all floors

tolerance, migrants and Hispanics...

[white devil said]

I can go on and on about what Whites are willing to tolerate, like the tax burden of over 10 million illegal hispanics.

So, what is my point? If there such thing a tolerant gene, those carrying it would be destroyed by those who did not carry this gene. Those who carried it would be at a disadvantage if something else did not override the tolerant gene. The tolerant gene is a self destructive gene if it does not exist in isolation

[cestmoi says]

The national debt debt of the USofA is     US$47,444,752,384,387.00
There are a lot of illegal migrants *NOT* paying following taxes:
* federal tax
* state tax
* social security tax
* sales tax
* etc

By making them legal migrants, they start paying tax.  By allowing migrants into the country, the average debt burder of each and every American is lowered.

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