Author: WENGEWANG

Double Standards   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2018-8-14 13:58:39 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-8-13 20:09
Countries that implement heavy controls on freedom of expression, rarely have such "proper chann ...
So you are essentially suggesting, that before anyone could post anything on internet, their comments should be fact-checked? In many cases there are no facts, only opinions. Real problem is opinions presented as facts, and that is difficult to address by any other mean than educating the readers to tell the difference


Yes, as much as possible. I have shown you how if opinions are left unchecked, people are deceived and this happens in religion, politics, and business. Educating people is a good way.

We return to difference that in western systems the people (and mass media as some argue) make the governments (if not the current administration, then the next one), while in countries like China not so much. All advertising, both political and commercial, is propaganda at some level. In west this kind of "manipulation" is not a risk, but the core idea of the political system - which extends from the governments to the people.


Yes, there is a difference in this aspect. But in certain parts of the west and to certain people, what countries like China are doing is considered "manipulation". In my personal opinion, it doesn't matter what system or methodology, just make it work. We can tell what kind of tree it is by looking at the fruit. By tasting the fruit, we can also tell how much effort is put into growing the tree.

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Post time 2018-8-14 18:07:39 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2018-8-14 13:58
Yes, as much as possible. I have shown you how if opinions are left unchecked, people are deceiv ...
I have shown you how if opinions are left unchecked, people are deceived and this happens in religion, politics, and business. Educating people is a good way.


But you do not seem to acknowledge, that freedom of expression itself is the most important tool to do that checking, and telling opinions and propaganda from facts. It enables people to research those facts and question suspicious statements.

During latest US presidential election debates for example, fact-checking already employed lot of people in most major news organizations.

This is usually least possible in countries that restrict freedom of expression to begin with, and most possible in countries with little or no such restrictions. They are free do question statements by their candidates as well as sitting president and other politicians. Is that so in China for example? No, not really.

That is what makes state-sponsored propaganda more dangerous than propaganda by individuals or media.

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Post time 2018-8-14 23:00:51 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-8-13 19:52
Well, you have the option to not use airbnb then. It is their requirement to submit ID, I believe  ...

jaja keeps proving my point over and over again. when western corporations spy on people, thats ok, but when chinese do it, it's not. i tell u what. let airbnb refuse to give the us gov access to their database of id's and see how long airbnb stays in business for

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Post time 2018-8-14 23:04:34 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-8-14 18:07
But you do not seem to acknowledge, that freedom of expression itself is the most important tool ...

double standards once again. come on son, lets be real here. did anyone ask any questions when the us rejim claimed to have killed mr laden? there were no videos, and no pictures. his body was immediately thrown in the ocean. what kind of fairy tale was that? no fact checks, no nothing. just simple dogma. sure wish the media or the sheep in the west can figure out opnion vs prapaganda

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Post time 2018-8-14 23:16:24 |Display all floors
This post was edited by WENGEWANG at 2018-8-15 10:16

im curious as to what you think about the guy in this video
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzc3NzQ4NDUwOA==.html?spm=a2hzp.8244740.0.0

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Post time 2018-8-15 17:29:53 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-8-14 18:07
But you do not seem to acknowledge, that freedom of expression itself is the most important tool ...
But you do not seem to acknowledge, that freedom of expression itself is the most important tool to do that checking, and telling opinions and propaganda from facts. It enables people to research those facts and question suspicious statements


From this aspect, freedom of speech should be allowed. That is based on the assumption that all people are trustworthy and honourable. However, there are cases where people who "check" are actually the liars. That is happening in the media too. So how do we prevent that? There is no easy answer. I still think education and awareness is the most pragmatic way.

This is usually least possible in countries that restrict freedom of expression to begin with, and most possible in countries with little or no such restrictions. They are free do question statements by their candidates as well as sitting president and other politicians. Is that so in China for example? No, not really.


You are looking at it from the political point of view. Politics is only part of the matter. The whole perspective includes the business field, religion, society as a whole, and politics.

Anyway, regarding politics, in the west, where candidates appear only when voting season comes around, the people do not really know the candidates well enough so has to depend on coverage of the press to find out more about the candidates. From these news/coverage, the people decide who to vote. In China, it is a different ball-game. The party is the organ where candidates have to go through the grind to move up the hierarchy. It is almost sure that the candidate who has come up at the top for selection would meet the criteria to take charge. The ability of the candidate is not a doubt. Politics is not a game of choices in China. Which is better? I leave it to you to decide. I don't think there is a perfect system. Even in the west, with all the news/coverage, you can still end up with a candidate that is questionable. I believe politics is only a kind of packaging. If you like the wrappers of "democracy" go ahead. It is your choice. What is more important is good governance. Digging up "juicy" news about a political leader is not as important as how this political leader performs on his job.

hat is what makes state-sponsored propaganda more dangerous than propaganda by individuals or media.


I disagree on this. As I have mentioned earlier, you can pin-point a government but you cannot pin-point who is who among the masses. Bad hackers are an example. They create havoc on the internet with scams and virus but nobody can specifically pin-point them. Which is more dangerous and which is more easy to detect and be solved?

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Post time 2018-8-15 18:10:12 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2018-8-15 17:29
From this aspect, freedom of speech should be allowed. That is based on the assumption that all  ...
From this aspect, freedom of speech should be allowed. That is based on the assumption that all people are trustworthy and honourable. However, there are cases where people who "check" are actually the liars. That is happening in the media too. So how do we prevent that?


If there really is freedom of speech, then that is also not a problem. If there is any reason to believe that someone is lying (be it a candidate, your business partner, or your government - or someone fact-checking their statements), you can always find a second opinion, or investigate the matter yourself if you don't trust anyone else.

in the west, where candidates appear only when voting season comes around, the people do not really know the candidates well enough


That is simply not true. The higher the position, the longer career they'd have behind them. Trump for example had a highly visibly career prior to being elected.

In most western countries, elected politicians do not only appear for annual two seek session, they are doing their work visibly through the year. Free media as watchdog makes sure of that. They report the politicians doings even when the politicians wouldn't want to be reported.

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