Author: mixamixa

Hong Kong vs. China football match   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2015-11-19 10:16:13 |Display all floors
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Post time 2015-11-19 11:33:48 |Display all floors
seneca Post time: 2015-11-18 20:47
Many Hongkongers feel that the Mandarin sanctified by the linguistically incompetent C.P.C. is an  ...


Judging by the fact that the honorable late Lee Kwan Yew when as a young foreign student from the '3rd world 'could outsmart his '1st world' british law school peers in Cambridge england, I think it's wiser to have more faith in his aesthetic taste and sense of judgement than the British's, esp regarding issues important to us chinese as a unity.

That being said, I should thank you for bringing up the mis-information. I m actually well aware of the prevalence of such misinformation in Hk, which is why I m trying to advocate China's media to answer back with facts and truth,  which is also why I m more than happy to repeat the facts and truth as follows:

The very fact that Mandarin has been accepted by the other 3 major chinese communities, 1/5 of the world's population, more than 1 billion ppl as their official language for > half century without dispute is telling  enough of mandarin's aesthetic perception among the chinese.  The very fact that the British have always chosen mandarin over cantonese as their children's chinese education in international school is telling enough of mandarin's better value and the brits genuine choice. Unless the foreigner Brits knew the chinese language better than chinese, their choice of cantonese for the several million HK chinese back in 1972 was definitely against the tide and ill-motivated.  The very fact that the canton area has never produced one single notable writer in chinese literature is telling enough of the cultural worth and depth of the cantonese language.  The very fact that the British could establish their footing in Hk is telling enough of where is China's weakest link.

Cantonese's poor perception among chinese is well known. foreigners and even native cantonese speakers also find cantonese unpleasant and crude.

  所謂的國歌 義勇軍進行曲 是用普通話唱的,而香港人母語是粵語,用普通話唱的歌是香港人的國歌?-- a Hk person's confusion. Abolishing cantonese's official status is a plausible solution to alleviate such confusion.

simplification of the chinese written characters has been an ongoing process of the Chinese language evolution since ancient time, only the extent of change is to a much lesser degree than the Latin system due to the innate stability of the Chinese language. Ancient Latin is already a dead language. The least latin alike, the most newly evolved English has become todays widely accepted communication currency which allows the exchanging of thoughts between u and me here. The most recent wave of simplification of the chinese written characters didn't begin with the CPC, KMD first started it 100yrs back, CPC successfully enforced the change half century back after taking over the power.  Singapore's late Lee Kwan yew was a renowned wise man, at his most difficult time he had the gut and the vision to follow the CPC's move despite being strongly against the CPC's political ideology.

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Post time 2015-11-19 11:36:08 |Display all floors

  Is Cantonese a harsh language? 粤语是一粗劣语言吗
  by Ben ? Tue Aug 14, 2001 5:06 am

  Do people have any opinions on this subject?
  I think Cantonese is one of the harshest languages around, unlike, say, Mandarin or other East Asian languages. Cantonese is simply very cacophonous and displeasing to the ear.
  As someone who speaks both Cantonese & English fluently (but not Mandarin), I find these two languages are not entirely compatible. I've heard of many anecdoctal reports of how people from HK who speak Cantonese who cannot adjust to NOrth American culture because of this linguistic barrier, as opposed to someone who speaks Mandarin who nonethless could acculturate relatively easier in spite of a greater cultural gulf between mainland China and NOrth America.
  Thoughts? Is linguistics/language playing a role here?


‘The real question is how well do HK youths speak Mandarin compared to their mainland peers, and how good is their English compared to a Native American or British?

Cantonese alone will not get them far in today's global economy. So in a way, it doesn't count, i.e. no one cares if their Cantonese is better or worse than their Shenzhen counterparts. ’ -- Comment by SCMP Reader

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Post time 2015-11-19 11:40:40 |Display all floors
tedbrent Post time: 2015-11-18 16:01
For all your intention to revile Hongkong , you simply can't deny that China's national men's soc ...


In all my attempt to revile HK's hostility towards China, I mentioned nothing about the game. To me,  it was pretty much a game of chinese team against an international team of various ethnic origins. I only watched part of the game and got the impression there were more african faces than Asian faces representing the >90% cantonese population of hk. I was aware that Africans might be having a greater sense of belonging for canton bcoz of weather and appearance, just didn't realize the change of representation has already gone so overboard so quick in Hk.

If u can speak chinese, u might have come across such saying, 四肢发达 头脑简单. I tend to believe that East Asians are culturally conditioned to be less competitive in general than both the Europeans and Africans in contact sports that are more demanding in terms of physical fitness and aggressiveness.  If I don't recall it wrong, Asian football teams have never made it into the final 4 in World Cup? Hardly any Asian faces appear in those international renowned football teams? The fact that most of the great basketball players in America are of african decent should not just be a case of coincidence.

When disassociation appears within a family, it's always the outsiders to benefit the most.  My argument was targeted at the anti-China sentiment displayed among the audience. If you have an argument of logic and reason to back up the display of such anti-China sentiment during the football match,  I am more than happy to read about it.

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Post time 2015-11-19 11:47:11 |Display all floors
Newtown Post time: 2015-11-18 16:47
Anyone who writes "bcoz", "cantonese". "mandarin" and "chinese" without a capital letter, misspell ...


English is not my native tongue nor my daily means of communication, i only started to pick up abc in my teen yrs. considering my inadequate language talent and the amount of effort I have put into learning the language, I am quite at ease with some apparent inadequacy  and lesser competence with the language as long as my message gets across.  the many mis-spelts is telling enough of my less than average calibre and I have little intention to project othetwise.  After all this is only a social forum full of strangers. Of course to write like an native is a goal worth striving for but the scope of being realistic should come bigger than the ideal or nothing gets a start.  Besides, English writing is phonic based, the written form of most if not all english vocabs have changed significantly in the last 1000yrs. It would surprise me the least if 'ur', gotcha' 'wanna' 'bcoz' become the norm in another 50yrs.  Telephone first appeared 100yrs ago. Phone replacing telephone happened in the last 50yrs. If a foreigner could manage to criticize my chinese ability, then I should indeed feel ashamed of myself.

In Hk's hey days a couple decades back, Hk might have attracted quite some attention from the mainland's elites. Nowadays, most of the better chinese brains wouldnt give a damn about what's going on in Hk. Only the less than average one like me would bother to delve into Hk issues.  My purpose here is clear and loud: since there seems to have been little media coverage about why cantonese was made official in Hk in 1972, I just feel the need to spread the relevant information and to advocate that

CANTONESE's official status in hk should be ABOLISHED!

As said previously, I welcome argument of sense and logic to challenge against mine. By focusing on my mis-spelling from beginning to the end, to the less than average me it looks like either the pettiness of much ado about nothing, or big sale of wit.  If during an argument with a foreigner on a chinese forum the only point I could grasp to pin down the foreigner is all about his poor command of the Chinese language, that should fit into the flimsiest of all possible arguments just right.

The topic concerns the disassociation of Hk from China as evident from the openly displayed anti-China sentiment among the audience and I think language plays a part in the root of disassociation. Misinformation regarding the superiority of cantonese over mandarin is prevalent in Hk.  Part of my post regarding cantonese's general poor perception among chinese and foreigners did not get to come up.  The poor perception is relevant to my argument about cantonese's irrelevance in hk's surge.  The circumstantial factors that made hk was the backdrop of China's chao upon western invasion, hk benefited from shanghai's downfall and later becoming the only window open to the west for China.  Given such circumstances, even Hk were just full of '250', Hk could still rise and shine effortlessly as the pearl of the orient.  Hk being just an circumstantial outcome, change of circumstances will change hk's fate easily, hence the inevitability of Hk's going downhill upon the fading of those favourable circumstantial factors.  Only innate competitiveness could adept well to changes and sustain the winning edge.

I have had enough encounters with the average hk ppl to pass the remark that their chinese competence is appalling but their English level seems to have attracted even more attention. given english's official status and the plentiful English-learning resources  in hk, hk ppl's English competence is rated below Indonesia by an international education organization.

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Post time 2015-11-19 11:53:04 |Display all floors
parcher Post time: 2015-11-18 15:59
I think the 1st game ended 0-0
who would pay to watch that rubbish


I watched the game by tv
and you are right, it was rubbish
both teams looked like amateurs teams
bored.
Denial, according the psychoanalysts, is one of the most primary mechanisms of defense. It consists in the attitude of denying or minimizing obvious facts of reality with which the individual can´t  cope or whose irresponsibility is unable to meet.

And I agree.

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Post time 2015-11-19 12:21:48 |Display all floors
If you think booing and saying "HK is not part of China" is bad, you should come check out the local teams playing each other...

Regular insults include:

Finding out the opposing teams goalkeepers name then chanting "*insert name* f**k your mum" for a full 45 minutes to put him off...

If the ball rolls over to the opposing teams stands and the opposing team player is stupid enough to come over himself and pick it up to speed up play, he can expect a hail of missiles, from coins to toilet paper thrown at him...

If the referee sends someone off, he can be sure this will be followed by a 20 minute chant of "The referees a stupid c**t"

I seen all this at a Harbin yiteng HeBei game....a somewhat traumatic experience. My friend even admitted, they mainly go to throw abuse at the opposing team.

By comparison, it seems the HK fans were polite in their protests.

You know that every time I try to go
Where I really want to be
It's already where I am
'Cause I'm already there

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