Author: canchin

many crow about democracy - let's see what it really means [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-3-28 02:00:15 |Display all floors

Oh dear, Fish, here you go again,

Still not contributing, still not answering, just repeating a woebegotten mantra over and over again in the hopes perhaps that someone will actually believe what you say or attribute some value to it.

For you, a piece of paper - or one of the doctored voting machines - is the be all and end all of utopia. If only it were true. Perhaps then, the countries that follow that foolish notion would be themselves a version of a utopia.

Since the government in China IS in fact chosen from among those that were elected to lead many years before they ever even arrived at a position of power, why do you so unknowingly continue to spout your "vote" mantra? In China, a politician starts their political career at an early age, gains experience over many years, has their abilities constantly reviewed - and criticized if warranted - they are chosen first from among those living in a small area and by those living in that small area to be in THEIR government, then as part of a group of others chosen the same way they move up the political ladder through district, municipal, county, provincial, regional and finally - if they have garnered enough respect for their abilities from all of those others that were chosen - by the people actually residing in the area wherein they were part of the government - they have the chance to attain the highest position. Even at that level there is a vote - among thousands of those for whom their inital choosing was done by the people.

No daddy's boys here. No failed cheerleaders finding their way into positions of power. No paid-for lobbyists corrupting the government to cater to the interests of the lobbyist's clients to the detriment of those not privy to the cash necessary to by off those on the lobbyist's "list." No large corporations pushing the country into war so the corporation and their "buddy's" can make a bit or a lot of blood money.

Nobody from another country coming in and getting rich and suddenly becoming a ruling government figure because of imagine celluloid fame.

China's government is far, far more inclusive and representative than is your deeply flawed system. China's government is far, far more honest than is your deeply corrupt system. China's political environment is far more concerned with improving the lives of the greatest majority of the people than is your singularly "bought and paid for" system.

Instead of your mantra repeating and greatly uninformed criticizing of what is showing itself to be a great; and very successful system - much to your chagrin we all realize - it perhaps behooves you to expend greater efforts on behalf of your own countrymen to improve their lot in life instead of wishing the absolutely morally and intellectually bankrupt, and woefully ignorant, system of your country on others.

In case you haven't "gotten it" yet, one more time then: China will develop her political and social system as China sees fit. China will not bow to the demands of your "barely old enough to pee standing up in terms of world history" country. China and the Chinese people have no intention of failing just because you and others of your same twisted logic wish her, and them, to.

You will just have to deal with it - or not of course. You are free to do what you want - just as is China.

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2005-3-28 07:00:40 |Display all floors

I have come to have an

appreciation for the Chinese government.  It deserves a lot of credit for making positive changes that have benefitted so many Chinese people.  

No form of government is perfect, nor eternal.  No system is ever going to be completely fair and just for every single citizen.  

What I dislike is the corruption of governments.  Power does strange things to people, be they American, Chinese or whatever.  That's not to say that every individual in government is corrupt.  However, the collective institutions themselves generate an environment where the maintenance of power takes precedence over using it wisely.

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-3-28 07:22:12 |Display all floors

Dearest Canchin my Canad-nese friend

I was just coming to your aid. I thought you were asking Westerners about Democracy. I guess that was not the case.
Instead let me ask you a few questions if I may. Will China ever be Democratic, in how many years approximately and how will it differ from the Western Democracy?

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-3-28 09:04:02 |Display all floors


>>SO it took the US, one of the first democractic nation to exist in this world, more than a century or two to finally ACHIEVE democracy, how long has china started?<<

Well, look at the economy boom China experienced in such a short time. Faster than any other country in history I assume? No reason why it can take China less time than US or any other democracies to mature its democratic system because of the day and age this is happening. China has many models to study now - she can learn from the good and skip experimentation with the bad (wow, so women aren't too dumb to vote! awesome, that saves me 100 years). And additionally, there is more pressure on China to reform politically now because its of the huge economic reforms it has undertaken.

>>China's government is far, far more honest than is your deeply corrupt system. <<

Uhh, even the Chinese government knows it has a major corruption problem, hence the harsh punishments for corruption. I suppose you were comparing it to the U.S system? Obviously the U.S has its corruption problems too... not sure if is quite to the level of that in China, but I won't get into that for now since I'm not American. I believe one of the reasons for this corruption in China has to do with the lack of checks and balances, lack of  independent bodies, and the fact that the government does not have control over many of the rural areas. It's still too much of a top-down system... and I don't think simply punishing corruption is enough to address the problem because what has been done has been done - and it's really hurting those at the bottom of the pyramid and also the economy.

Political reform is not merely about bowing down to western democracies... I think the CCP is sensible enough to know that it needs political reform to keep up with its changing environment, but they're also worried about losing party control. They're still trying to balance the two.

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-3-28 10:48:32 |Display all floors

It is so refreshing to read an open debate about forms of governments.

I am glad to come to this forum. At least here we have an open debate on the great ideal and shitty reality of American political system and the not so ideal but in reality a more efficient political (value for money) system devoid of the excesses of money politics of America.

In my opinion, there is differences in culture of Americans and Chinese.

You see, chinese ranks LONGETIVITY OF THE STATE (as no. 1), HAPPINESS OF THE PEOPLE (as no.2) and PROSPERITY (as no.3). It explains why middle class bureacrats - selected by wise elders and groomed over a period of many years are chose to rule. The state is kept small, and autonomy is provided to the provinces to ensure the people are kept happy, free from tyranny and eventually become very prosperous.

In America, they rank PROSPERITY (as no.1 ), HAPPINESS OF THE PEOPLE (as no. 2) AND LONGITIVITY OF THE STATE (as no. 3). This explains why the common people are allowed to have GUNS to overthrown the state structure and why the most GREEDY of the American citizens are given reins of power in the state. Greed is a national mantra, the army, media are the weapons of choice to maintain the status of being no.1 in wealth.

Only an observation. This concept of governance is beneficial to our world as it will open up the eyes of other lesser nations. It will benefit all in the future.


Game Master!

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2005-3-28 11:33:40 |Display all floors

It could have been refreshing

except that you find it necessary for some reason to attempt to bolster your opinion by using  derogatory comments.  They aren't needed, and don't impress anyone.

Even so, I wonder what you mean by longevity of the state?  Are you saying that the main purpose of the government is to sustain itself?  At any cost?

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-3-28 11:52:12 |Display all floors

Mr. Wayves - a very good point, and here is the reply....

....the longetivity of the state = longetivity of the civilization.

Civilization = a civil orderly peaceful society where the needs of the people are protected.

If there is no state = it is not possible to have prosperity and provision of services and products that keep the most number of people happy and having long lifes...

So, what is your complaint?

Americans, are brainwashed to look only at $ figure solely. Its people are prepared to bring down the nation with guns blazing. A detroyed state cannot provide happiness, prosperity or health services for its people!

So, what is your complaint?


Game Master!

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