Author: canchin

many crow about democracy - let's see what it really means [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2004-6-28 19:28:14 |Display all floors


I'll answer this way:

1. Yes there is and it is known by the China government and Chinese people that there is and that is why there are so many changes that have taken place and continue to take place.

Is there anything wrong with the way "other" countries are governed? Are those countries actively working toward 'fixing' what everyone knows are the problems?

2. Yes, there is.

Is there any censorship in other countries? Or is it only here that gets the ridicule? Do you class "self-censorship" or "censorship through exclusion" as censorship or do those types get a free ride?

3. Define the terms?

Does China have the right to her own laws and to deal with those that break the laws of the country or is China subject to the laws and/or "approval" of China's laws from outside?

4. Probably. I've never known a government anywhere that doesn't keep secrets.

Is it your contention that all is known in other countries?

5. There are a great many things that are not only good but laudable and wonderful about the States.

Do I think this extends to the government there, the political system, the common education system, the mass media - or the beer? No.

Nothing wrong with being curious. I am as well. Thus, an offering of a chance for those that repeatedly criticize to come up with a workable solution.

After all, it has been posted before that our writings are perhaps viewed by others and maybe some concrete, constructive comments instead of what often is just thrown out as rhetoric or insulting propaganda will have a positive effect. Who knows? No place is perfect, but the odd thing about perfection, some feel that as it cannot be attained they don't try but those that at least try have a hell of a lot better chance of getting close than those that either don't try or who think they have already obtained it and so don't try to change to improve.

HeDan, more concise and to the point than my ramblings. The "limb" held.

That's all it is. Those that feel they have an idea of how to improve things - let's take a crack at it instead of just throwing out the word as if it were somehow a magic charm.

I took a 'crack' at it - anybody else?

As for writing the word, when I first joined the forum I saw how others were writing the word and I copied it for a few days and then stopped doing so. Looking back, I haven't written it in 'code' for a long time.

There are a lot of "those words" that I don't write in code and they seem to be allowed. There are others - but I know what they are - that I don't bother with as I understand the sensitivity aspect of them and hey, this isn't my business. If something is viewed as sensitive, who am I to ridicule the right of China to deal with such things in 'her' own good time.

Lot's of Chinese 'story' idioms that could be used for this.

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bchung has been deleted
Post time 2004-6-28 22:58:58 |Display all floors

well before democracy

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2004-6-29 04:26:47 |Display all floors

*smart people write really long posts *


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Rank: 4

Post time 2004-6-29 07:40:56 |Display all floors

These devilish details

The devil sits in details, Canchin ,and in the will.
It is very true , that if a party of negotiations comes to a form of agreement with another, but still keeps the control over the matters - the result is superficial i.e. "formally" all or majority of agreements are done , but only to the words - not to the spirit and original ideas.
This is how the things go in many countries. It depends on this mindset of how much people weight their words. Or are folks of a kind that can make a gentleman agreement , or not.
You can argue with a counter partner and come to a modus vivendi , to a final conclusion shared by everybody and start feel happy.
We agreed to make a car.
And after the while you see that there is a car - as in  the agreement - but the car has triangle wheels = for no use= the agreement is fulfilled up to the written words , but not up to the spirit.

This is how it is in many countries [( ;-)].
I've read all thread from top to bottom and this time your article TWICE.
There is one very serious flaw in the solutions line you are thinking of.
Please do understand , that in the countries , where the group of people has all-power-in-hand there is no bllody chance to have any faith in poll counting.
Look what the situation is like in countries , which have multiparty systems. Even there we see frauds, unclear miracles, and that kind of stories. When there are folks from different groups looking at each other hands - it is still not as perfect as we wished.
You can of course try to tell us ,that chinese are the unique species on this planet and such things like cheating never crosses their minds , because of 5000years , Confucius and God know what else.
The truth is , what it is , you 've been here long enough - no need to tell the priest how to pray.
The transparence of voting and counting the voices is one of the key factors. In the country where for decades the interest of the par ty was identified with the interest of the nation and the interest of the state ,and where words against par ty line has been treated as as state treason - it is unlikely to change it in less than two generations time.
It is good idea to start  implementation of elements of democracy at the village level. A good description of how things practically go I found in Xinhua web site about 2 months ago. It was description of "irregularities" during democratic voting in the town of Yiyang in Hunan.
Things were going bananas in the bright day light. Those who were making "irregularities" did not bother that it was open ripping and tearing apart the basic characteristics of voting. They had no any single cell in their brains , that this can have any repercussions later. The arrogance and treatment of people as a herd of  stupid******** is by far worse than you can see in the most modern city of Shenzhen. Unfortunatelly Chi na is not only Shenzhen.
I do not believe in any crap , no matter which country it concerns, that a monogroup is decent enough to make fair things when it comes to who holds the power.
I prefer Cinderella and Pinocchio for a fairy tails.

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2004-7-18 11:51:51 |Display all floors

There are still

those commenting on "the need" for a new system but again still not many wanting to give concrete examples of how to go about establishing one.

Saying the words "direct elections" is pretty meaningless unless the system through which those elections are supposed to be "meaningful" is defined is just empty words.

So again, some of the various iterations of the "preferred" system - along with the failures and what can be viewed as "good" points - are noted, so if those that still just keep harping on the individual words as if they are "magic" care to actually help the situation, let's have your well-defined and workable amalgam and perhaps with your help China can establish a form that is superior to the forms of the system already being applied elsewhere.

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2004-7-27 09:38:31 |Display all floors

This was a good attempt as discussing the details of Democracy

I feel the term Democracy may be used too loosely so this posting which covers many details of different forms of Democracy is good.  Ultimately, what we call a government is not as important as what the government truly is in the eyes of its people.   As a minimum, people in China must feel that their government is truly looking out for their best interest, their  future, and they are fairly represented.  People outside of China may have ideas about what type of government is best for China.  But ultimately, it's the people in China who matters because for any government to succeed, it must reflect the will of its people.   If the people stop trusting and stop believing in their government,  then it's no longer a government for the people,  but a receipt for rebellion.  

We only need to look at Iraq as one of the most current example.  USA wants to export a form of Democracy to transform Iraq and ultimately, if the Neocons have their way, to transform the entire middle east.   This blind arrogance of course, doesn't take into account how the Iraqis feel about it.  Did anyone even bother to ask the Iraqis what type of government they want?   If the USA just stopped to truly understand what Iraqis wanted and acted accordingly, perhaps the Iraqis would see the interim government as a more legitimate government, thereby reducing the insurgencies, and giving the normal everyday Iraqis something worth fighting and protecting.   The Iraq example is a deadly lesson to learn as Democracy cannot be imposed on anyone, but it must be given the time to grow and prosper from within.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-3-6 02:34:28 |Display all floors

Perhaps the only post on the forum

that correctly analyzed a government system.

Wonder why none of the know-nothing yankees responded? Do you think it is because they can't read or just that it is just too "deep" for them.

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