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White Lies [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2013-5-19 03:33:01 |Display all floors
My past is with only American women, If they lie they just lie, no excuses and I understood they were not honest. Now that i'm with a Chinese woman and I have spent time with her and her friends I'm really confused. They seem to have no problem lying right to your face. Not only do they lie to your face but they feel it is the correct thing to do. When I say lie what I mean is that it appears they would rather tell you a bullshit story than deal with an issue. She calls them White lies? It concerns me since it appears to me that it makes them untrustworthy but after talking to her she confuses me and tells me she does not want to hurt anyones feelings so she makes up these stories so everyone can save face.One example is if a man asks her out on a date. Instead of just saying " No thanks, I have boyfriend" she will say something like" O no can do, my english no good enough to date american man" And of course the problem with this answer if your american is it leaves the door open to keep asking for a date.
Sounds like bullshit to me but I have learned to keep an open mind when it comes to the Chinese culture. Anyone care to give an opinion?

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Post time 2013-5-19 09:39:32 |Display all floors
I know some constant liars and they habitually tell lies for no reasons. Probably they were never taught properly that lying is an inegreity issue. First you shouldn't lie. Second you shouldn't tell unnecessary lies - under circumstances when you have to lie you have to 1) justify lying; 2) make sure your memory serves you okay about this

If she thinks 'it doesn't hurt anyone', well she has to know that it does, and it hurts herself the most. She is going to lose people's trust - something no one can buy.

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Post time 2013-5-19 16:42:21 |Display all floors
If you want to have a cross cultural relationship you have to learn and accept the culture. Those of us with Chinese wives and successful marriages have learned and would not change our wives.

Try asking directions in China. You will always get directions even if the person you ask hasn't a clue

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Post time 2013-5-20 13:04:50 |Display all floors
We have Red Robert on CD{:soso_e133:}

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Post time 2013-5-20 20:57:41 |Display all floors
Have you got another example?
You see in China, people would lie for the sake of face. Nothing serious
Life is what you make of it

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Post time 2013-5-21 02:56:26 |Display all floors
Here's an example:

My girlfriend is divorced. She told me many months ago that she and her son "never see her ex." Told me he is not involved in his son's life at all. I said: "That is very sad, never to see one's father..." She didn't respond.

The other day, the subject of him came up during something, and she said something about "during his last visit, they hardly spoke at all.", so I was like: "Wait. What? I thought you said he is not in your son's life, and there is no contact?"

GF: "He never calls, only visits once per year."
Me: "...but you said there is no contact; that he is not in your son's life." [Lie #1]
GF: "There is no contact, they have nothing to talk about."
Me: "If he visits once per year, then there is contact."
GF: "He never calls; he doesn't care."
Me: (to myself) "Oh, so he visited last time before I went to see her, or she would have told me..."
Me: "When did he last come to visit?"
GF: "December or January."
Me: "Why didn't you tell me?"
GF: "It wasn't on my mind." [Lie #2]
Me: "So you met for dinner somewhere?"
GF: "No."
(silence, but no further information volunteered)
Me: "you invited him over for dinner then?"
GF: "He came over, no dinner."
(I asked some questions about the visit, she left out all details I didn't specifically ask about.)
Me: "Were you afraid I'd be jealous if you told me about his visit?"
GF: "I can tell by all your questions that you're jealous." [evaded the question, but I took it as a 'yes']
Me: "A father seeing his son is nothing to get jealous over. But it is hurtful to me that you didn't tell me. Please tell me next time. Not a big deal."

There was another episode, which caused me to join this forum, in which some of her coworkers (two bosses) kept offering to set her up with a boyfriend. After we were dating. Her response was always: "OK." I was insulted.

Me: "Why is it OK? You are still looking for someone better?"
GF: "Of course not, don't you trust me!?"
Me: "I TRY to, but your actions cause me to lose trust."
GF: "Those were 'Holiday words' they will not do anything."
Me: "How do you know?"
GF: "Because I know; this is my culture."
Me: "What if you're wrong?"
GF: "Then I will tell the guy no."
Me: "..and hurt him needlessly. Because he will think you're single and you just don't want him."
GF: "That's OK."
Me: "What about me? Do you think I like your spreading the idea that you're single?"
GF: "If there is no trust, we should not continue. You should trust me to handle it." [huh?]
Me: "What about me? How valuable do I feel to you, if you won't even admit that you have a boyfriend?"
GF: "Do you want me to advertise to everybody that I'm dating an American guy?"
Me: "No, you don't have to. But you have to AT LEAST tell people who ask about your relationship status that you're dating someone. It is the minimum I will settle for, otherwise, it is a slap in my face."
GF: "If I don't want to?"
Me: "Then I think we're done."

she didn't respond, but cried all weekend. Wouldn't return my emails. Eventually, she conceded and told them (just the two who were offering, and just when the offered again) that she has a boyfriend. I was ready to dump her over that little deception.

But you see Dany, in the case of her status, neither of our girlfriends LIED, exactly. They were just deceptive and evasive. We don't like it, but they don't understand. I had to laugh a little at how they deceive without lying, sometimes.

In my first story, she lied a little, and omitted a lot, to try to keep me being upset. Of course, it resulted in my being MORE upset. But they don't think that way.

I heard a radio show on This American Life about Americans in China. One interviewee said the hardest thing for westerners to understand is "their sliding moral compass." It is part of their culture.

I never thought about it until I started dating her, but in the US, in court, when we are sworn in to give testimony, the judge asks us: "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?" >> "I do"

Sometimes, they will tell the truth, but not the WHOLE truth. Only the minimum amount of truth required. ;-)

Other times, they will tell the truth, ("he never calls") but add something untrue ("he has no contact") which violates "nothing but the truth."

By the way, I agree with you. If I pursued a foreigner girl here, and she told me "no, because my English is not good enough" I would say: "Your English is fine, you just told me so that I understood it, right?"

An American girl would either have said: "No, I'm taken." or "No thanks" or "Thank you, but I'm not interested." any of which closes the door for further advances. The straight rejection is hard to take for a moment, but we appreciate the straight honesty.

So, I'm slowly learning to try to focus more on the intent than whether everything is 100% honest and open. In general, it is not an open culture. Meanwhile, she is trying to be more open and honest with me all the time.

Sometimes, I try to omit information or just tell part of the truth on some silly little thing. But I cannot do it! I feel guilty immediately!

If we judge them by our own culture's rules, the relationship will fail. We have to meet in the middle.

I look forward to hearing more of your adventures.

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Post time 2013-5-21 13:21:57 |Display all floors
Pond Post time: 2013-5-20 13:04
We have Red Robert on CD

Red Robbo lies but in his mind it is only because he does not want to hurt our feelings

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