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Post time 2012-9-16 05:09:17 |Display all floors
This post was edited by St_George at 2012-9-16 05:11


Egyptian protesters surge into Cairo’s Tahrir Square

Saturday September 15,2012

By Chris Roycroft-Davis

YOU can generally tell the worth of an idea by the company it keeps. That’s why many of us knew the Arab Spring was a disaster waiting to happen once it had the unstinting support of both Nick Clegg and the BBC. Tragically but so predictably the Arab Spring has turned into an Islamist Autumn with the prospect of a winter of even more violent discontent ahead.

Those who watched the rolling 24-hour news channels last year and believed the revolution sweeping North Africa and the Middle East would usher in a golden era of peace and democracy are now shown to be hopelessly misguided.

The weapons of mobile phones, text messages and Twitter posts that broadcast the downfall of a string of dictatorships have been replaced by guns, bombs and the rule of the mob.

Ironically we are now watching the flames of hatred burning bright in Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Sudan, Morocco and Tunisia through the very same technology that only last year supposedly showed us the birth of peace.

An anti-Islam video on YouTube inflames mobs around the world with the speed of a bushfire while Western leaders have the baffled looks of people whose log-in to reality has failed.

If we meddle we are seen as aggressors

History teaches us many valuable lessons but sadly politicians remain incapable of learning them. We saw very clearly what happened in Iraq after the West deposed Saddam Hussein but hadn’t prepared for the consequences.

With no democratic institutions in place to govern and no home-grown army or police able to enforce the rule of law it was open season for terrorists and fanatics.

Did that deter the West from attacking the mad dog Gaddafi in Libya without a properly thought-out end game in place?

No, Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy went ahead and bombed Gaddafi’s regime into submission and offered the hand of friendship to the “rebels”. Now it’s plain the “rebels” were also dogs who were just as mad as Gaddafi, just as ruthless and just as bloodthirsty. Far from transforming the regime from oppression to freedom, everything the West has done has created more oppression, more bloodshed, more hatred.


The American people are rightly horrified by the assassination of their Libyan ambassador Chris Stevens and three of his staff. With the presidential election only weeks away they should also be horrified at the naivety of those who govern.

Hillary Clinton says of the Libyan assassination: “Today many Americans are asking how this could happen in a country we helped liberate, in a city we helped save from destruction.” Simple: the same reason it happens in Iraq and Afghanistan. Where there is a vacuum of legitimate power it is swiftly filled by extremism. Islam is not a dangerous religion any more than Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism.

What makes it more powerful is the hold it has over its followers, many of whom freely accept all edicts that are handed down. If the mullahs continually preach anti-Western messages to their congregations, many of whom are barely literate and unable to form opinions of their own, it’s inevitable that the predictable path is followed.

The trouble with poking your nose into other countries’ business is that you suddenly find it becomes your business. The more we meddle with Islamic countries the more we are seen as aggressors. There is no gratitude for the billions we have poured into their countries, only anger that we dare try to impose our values on them.

The warning signs have been apparent in Libya for some time. First there was the desecration of British war graves and then the rocket attack on our ambassador Sir Dominic Asquith, which mercifully failed.

Yet Nick Clegg’s view of Libya was that supporting Gaddafi’s opponents was “in the UK’s clear self-interest because of our values but also our prosperity and security”. He insisted: “We remain determined to help the Libyan people build a country that is safe, free and fair.”

Well you’ve scored nought out of 10 so far, Mr Clegg. Those who cheered at the downfall of Gaddafi and Egypt’s president Mubarak overlooked one thing: under both dictators the fanatics were thrown in jail and the key conveniently lost. All the Arab Spring did was free them to attack the West. Whom will the West try to depose next?

Probably President Assad of Syria. What will it achieve? Nothing. The Russians and Chinese will be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of getting an even greater foothold in Syria, which would be warmly welcomed by Iran.

Will the people of Syria welcome Western intervention? Not a hope in hell. Why should we expect them to be grateful that a regime most of them hate has been replaced by a regime backed by a culture almost universally despised by Islam?

The West must understand that Islam sets standards which most of us would find hard to uphold. The fact that many disagree with those values is our problem, not Islam’s.

Oppressing women, pillorying homosexuals, banning alcohol and praying day after day may not be everyone’s cup of tea. But it’s the way they have chosen and we have no God-given right to stamp our culture on them. Particularly when we know how corrupt and venal our own culture can be.

Your own mind is a sacred enclosure into which nothing harmful can enter except by your permission. Arnold Bennett

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Post time 2012-9-16 06:35:31 |Display all floors
Excellent article and spot-on, it highlights how pig-thick our politicians really are.
Your own mind is a sacred enclosure into which nothing harmful can enter except by your permission. Arnold Bennett

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Post time 2012-9-16 09:59:27 |Display all floors
St_George Post time: 2012-9-16 06:35
Excellent article and spot-on, it highlights how pig-thick our politicians really are.

good article George , i think this one is better:
'US has supported Arab uprisings, and now it’s blowback time'

14 September, 2012

Russia Today

America is finally reaping what it has sown when it helped NATO overthrow Gaddafi’s Libya, broadcaster and journalist Neil Clark told RT. The US government is losing its grip on Libya, Egypt and the rest of the Arab world, he said.
Clark spoke with RT about the violent protests outside the US embassies in Egypt, Yemen, and Libya.
RT: What's your assessment of who's behind the worst of this violence – does it seem heavily-orchestrated to you?

Neil Clark: It does, actually. Remember the old saying, ‘You reap what you sow?’ The US is really reaping what it’s sowed. Let’s think back to February 2011. The US took part with NATO in the attack on Gaddafi’s Libya, bringing death and destruction. And they’ve created this violent situation. So while of course we condemn the attacks on the US consulate and the murder of Chris Stevens, we’ve got to put this in wider context. And this wouldn’t have happened had NATO not intervened last year.
RT: Is there a sense that the government's losing its grip on an angry public in Egypt, which has been at boiling point ever since the uprising?
NC: The government is losing its grip in Libya, in Egypt, and across the region. And the US is the party that’s been stoking all this up. The US has been aggressively supporting uprisings across the region for its own interest and now it’s blowback time. Non-interference is the best way to go, really.
RT: It's being reported that President Obama might deploy drones to seek out the mob who killed their ambassador to Libya. If it's true, what do you make of such a move?
NC: What are they going to do – regime change again? We had this last year. Gaddafi was a dictator, but it was a stable country. The US and NATO decided to intervene. If we look across the globe, everywhere that NATO has intervened has been a disaster. We look at Iraq – one million people killed there. Yugoslavia. Kosovo – the ethnic cleansing of Serbs and Roma. Somalia – chaos there. Afghanistan – 11 years of war. And yet, we still get the same old people calling for intervention across the globe. When will they learn that it just leads to more death and destruction?
RT: The US has invested time, money and extraordinary effort in what it sees as liberating these countries, yet it's all coming undone in a flash. Can America recover its efforts from this?
NC: America has to pull back and change its course. They’ve intervened in Libya and it’s been disastrous. Western multinationals are taking over the economy, of course. And it’s the same in Egypt. But ordinary people pay the price. And I think we’ve got to change our course completely now, after this.
RT: What lessons are there for America's foreign policy here – by going into these countries with the intention of being a liberator, but which become controlled either by radical groups, or uncontrollable angry mobs?
NC: Well it’s happening in Syria, too, where we’ve had an intervention. Of course, Syria was a relatively peaceful country 18 months ago. The US and its allies intervened there to back the opposition there. Peaceful protests turned to violent ones because of the US line. And so, we need to change this whole policy and leave other countries alone and let them sort out their own affairs. But the neo-cons are still very powerful in Washington and they’re the ones pushing this regime change agenda. So long as they have influence, all we’re going to get is more death and destruction.
RT: Could this anti-American anger be enough to undermine Egypt's fragile new democracy?
NC: People in Egypt are upset with what’s happened. They thought there would be a change when Mubarak went, but things have stayed the same. Morsi has been a big flop. People are very poor and unhappy with the way things have gone. So unless there’s real change in Egypt, this will only continue.

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Post time 2012-9-16 23:38:49 |Display all floors
This article is more for Revolutionar to enjoy

I think nethnanyu did give a veiled warning that we dont know where and how this movement will shape the region.A vacum was created where stable government should be.Perhaps because of a lack of leadership the people have to take it in their own hands and protest.
Funny how it statrted in Tunisia and thats where the US has pulled its diplomats away from first.

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Post time 2012-9-17 00:14:39 |Display all floors
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Post time 2012-9-17 01:49:17 |Display all floors
This is what I had been saying from the Day 1 :

"the Arab Spring has turned into an Islamist Autumn "  

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Post time 2012-9-17 02:19:22 |Display all floors
Kbay Post time: 2012-9-16 22:55
Hey Rent boy.
Correct me if I remembered wrongly, but I think this was what you actually really s ...

Shut up, Kbay

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