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This post was edited by GermanClown at 2012-6-29 20:07|
expatter Post time: 2012-6-29 16:30
The Qin which preceded and became the Han Dynasty stretched from N. Korea down to Shanghai and th ...
The Qin which preceded and became the Han Dynasty stretched from N. Korea down to Shanghai and the Eastern seaboard of China and it stretched across to central China. I consider the eastern seaboard of China to be ‘in the east’. Now, it did not start in Turkmenistan down to Guangdong which I personally would consider as Western China, or is it possible that I should I change hands as left for right?
False, where do you think the first emperor of China came from? Central China, and he reunited China by conquering towards the Eastern Seaboard, to deny this is to revise history. Please go back and study the history of the warring states, not the Qin empire which has already been established, that should be a no brainer.
Guangdong become part of the Han territory in the Qin Dynasty (222 BC) to the Pearl River and the rest in 111 BC and had previously been an independent territory. It was a political vassal only and did not fully integrate until there was massive migration from 585 – 1187.
That maybe so, but Guangdong has fully been assimilated into Han culture, over 2000 years, don't forget today China have 1.4 billion people, the population in Guangdong alone today is at the very least 30 folds of what it was back then, human migration from North, West to South all contributes to this. One thing is for sure Guangdong and Vietnam have nothing in common.
I think the British started that ball rolling in 1842 with the first of the ‘unequal treaties’, the succeeding events were just part of a larger whole and the Qing Dynasty ended in 1911 before even the May 4th event of 1919. In 1927 the civil war started in China and the Japanese presence (1931 then 37) became additional fuel in an established conflagration. Neither the KMT, nor the communists weakened the Japanese as they were saving themselves to fight each other. I do not think many in China would see the Japanese invasion as ‘not bad’, especially if you came into contact with them at that time. It was certainly not the Chinese that finished, or even would have finished the Japanese although they did keep them occupied in very large numbers.
The fact is the Chinese were fighting both the Soviets, at that time and even managed to drive them out of Xinjiang, and another front where they kept the Japanese busy and from ever entering the Chinese heartlands(apart from airstrikes), the Communist and the KMT did not get along, they were fighting each other even as there were fighting against the Japanese, but the Western warlords, or the muslim warlords along with the Manchu Warlords did declare ceasefire and devoted their resources to fight against the Japanese. In the end the Japanese came no where close to conquering China, and the Chinese resistance were gaining momentem and strength towards the end of the war. The Japanese by then have run out of resources, are starving and it's just a matter of time before they were completely driven out.
The Chinese did not go into civil war until 16 years after the end of Qing rule. If the KMT had not attacked the Communists then it is possible that the then hotch-potch government (1921 -1927) may have found a way forward without a civil war.
Actually rebellion already started all throughout the 18th century, i suggest you read up on the Xinghai revolution, regional warlords are already fighting for control of territories during the early 19th century, the Qing has already lost control by this time. This is nothing more than a subjective matter.
This is where you name them ……… Right ……… ?
……… the Yuan Dynasty sparks the Golden age of the Ming Dynasty, ………
No. It sparked a revolution against it which led to the Ming Dynasty and therefore equals a different thing ………..
I suggest you relearn this part of history instead of just selectively picking out infos. The Yuan Dynasty by all means was a peaceful collapse during which it was hastened by Kublai Khans demise, and the preceeding power and authority handed back to his Han, and a few Turkic advisors. Of course they would be power struggles during such period of transition but without a doubt, Kublia Khan had already left a strong and united Chinese legacy for whomever that inherites it, will inherit the next Golden age, without the Yuan Dynasty, they would be not Ming dynasty.
WWII never reunited China. The Communists did some years after WWII ended 1945 - 1949.
It was the spark needed to get the divided factions focused on a common enemy, as evident when the Manchu warlords, and the Muslim warlords uniting themselves with both the CCP and the KMT to resist against the Japanese
The Industrial Age was 1750 -1900 not 1927 – 1949 ………
China missed out on over 300 years of progress, they were nowhere in the industrial age by the end of WW2 but the war sped up that progress and awaken it's people of the need to advance both in science and in military. Another subjective matter.
I do suggest you not misinform yourself or the audience, because having too little information and knowledge tend to lead you to misinterpret certain events, and it is obvious you have not fully verse in Chinese history, and is only beginning to learn, well that's a good thing, I encourage you to read up on everything I just stated and do back it up with sources next time if you have a differing oppinion.
Also don't come at me with irrelevant topics like the Industrial age started from 1750-1900, or a full scale Chinese civil war did not start until 1927, those factors are really subjective and off topic(information which I already known yet you throw it out there like it has relevance to what I said), and we can go to the ends just to debate on subjective issues.