Author: Alex2010

Europe's Fear of the Burqa [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2010-7-23 22:26:24 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2010-7-23 13:55
Who the hell gives YOU the right to make such a sweeping allegation? ...


I'm an individual and I am allowed to make observations.  Just as I would expect from mulsins to think our women are '###s' due to the way they dress, it's also a natural reaction for us to comment on such a horrid garment.  We have the right as people to feel and say these things publicly where they can be challenged.  I would welcome discussion than to have someone hold beliefs and judgements silent where they can fester.   The only chance to dispel ignorance is to bring the issues up for public discussions.  So far, no one has been able to convince me that these horrible garments are not symbols of oppression and religious extremism.  So, my opinion stands.   These things are scary and have no place in modern societies.  Wear them all you want back home, but leave them out of your suitcase when visiting  the west unless you WANT people to be afraid of you and you WANT to spread more hatred of your people.   And personally, I think maybe they do.
  
Behold the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.

                          -  James Bryant Conant

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Post time 2010-7-24 08:56:39 |Display all floors

some great commentary on the topic:

We had a mini-debate in the office yesterday about a new Syrian law banning niqabs, those head coverings that cover everything on the face except for the eyes. I favor the ban, having lived in and spent a very long time in the Muslim world. I would submit that the niqab and burqa are not Islamic. They are not mentioned or implied as a dress requirement in the Quran. And they are not a garment of choice among Muslim women.

Others on the board disagree. Their position is that clothing bans, in general, are bad, and that people should be free to wear whatever garment they want in accordance with their religious beliefs. That's great in theory, but the key word here is choice. I've yet to see a survey anywhere in the Muslim world in which women are asked whether they actually choose to wear burqas or niqabs. What I do know is that when women in countries like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan travel to the West and get away from their male minders, they very quickly and enthusiastically get as far away as they can from these clothing items.

It's not their choice to wear niqabs and burqas. It's the choice of the men in their lives -- their husbands, brothers and fathers. In cultures where women are not free to make their own choices, I say, there is a role for government to play in telling men unequivocally: You will not impose your backward codes on women as a means of dominating them.

When free choice comes to those countries and infiltrates every aspect of their cultures, then it'll be time to lift the bans. But until that day comes, I say the government of Syria is correct in imposing the ban.

What about France? Isn't it a country where free choice rules the day? For people who have adopted France's Western culture, absolutely. But thousands of immigrants from the Muslim world have formed insular communities in France where they continue to impose the strictures of the cultures from which they came. Within those communities, there is no freedom of choice for some women. The ban allows them to say "no" when males in their homes try to dictate a harsh dress code for them.

It's easy to see a ban as harsh when you view it from a Western perspective, where women are free to do as they please. But we can't assume that's the case for all women, across the board. This is not a question of religious expression. It's a question of male domination over women. Ban the niqab and burqa, and you whittle away at that domination.

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Post time 2010-7-24 11:10:17 |Display all floors
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Post time 2010-7-24 11:25:03 |Display all floors

...no sensible posts allowed...

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Post time 2010-7-24 16:43:42 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2010-7-24 11:04


No, it isn't. It is people LIKE YOU that are turning a purely private affair into a political issue. As I said in another thread, you Usanians are INTOLERANT and CONFORMIST.
That means YOU AR ...


But it isn't a private affair.  You might as well go outside with a 10-foot flashing neon sign for a headdress.  The burqa draws attention to the wearer and it strikes fear in children and adults.  There is not much private about that.   If it were about modesty, they wouldn't be trying to draw attention to themselves.  As I said before, if you want to find potential terrorists, just follow the lady home wearing the burqa.

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Post time 2010-7-24 16:45:51 |Display all floors

yes....

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Post time 2010-7-24 16:51:32 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2010-7-24 11:04
Your arguments stand on very weak feet! You are driving even Westerners into the Islamicist extremist offside! Shame on you! I had thought we had finally overcome Uncle Sam's preoccupation with Christian fundamentalism. But are the Televangicals, BIlly Grahams, Moonies, Jehovas' Witnesses and other subversives things of the past??? Your mindset seems to point to the opposite!.


Exactly why we don't we don't want lslam here.  We've been going forward and you just want to replace the televangelists with clerics and mullahs.  At least you didn't have anything to fear with the televangilist - they just tried to exploit people for money.  No one filled a car full of explosives to punish people for offending christainity.  You want us to go backwards under the guise of 'tolerance'.   I'm not going to see my country get MORE religious.  Have our laws influenced by MORE religion.  

Please tell any of your friends considering moving to the US - not to come.  Scream it from the rooftops if you have to.  The US is no place for the likes of your kind.  You're not going to do to us what you did to europe.
We're still going to have america whether you like it or not.  I'd rather die than to see my country fall to lslam.

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