Author: Morgezuma

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Post time 2015-5-28 21:13:26 |Display all floors
seneca Post time: 2015-5-28 20:15
You should have no trouble accepting that the KOSOVARS see it the exact same way - the Serbs too ...

That is insane.  Firstly, you are talking about Albanians, not kosovars which includes serbians.  The whole conflict has its roots from imperialism.  The ottoman empire and then the nazi regimes that took kosovo (which was always a part of serbia).

Albanians and serbians have always lived in kosovo together.  Albania is its own country and the only reason that there are so many albanians in kosovo is due largely to immigration there from albania.  That and the fact that serbians lost so many lives fighting to keep it from the ottoman empire and then from the nazis who annexed kosovo and moved in thousands of albanians.

The serbians lost majority in kosovo.  That doesn't mean the land didn't belong to them.  Its like how the US government explained it to the indians and how they lost land that the government made treaties to say it belongs to the indians.  A 'natural encroachment of settler' of the land was how it was put to defend all the settlers on their territory and why they couldn't have it back.

The serbs and albanians are not the bad guys here.  It was the ottomans, the austro-hungarian empire and the nazis (which was the austrian-hungarian empire part two) that are the bad guys here.
  
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Post time 2015-5-29 10:32:12 |Display all floors
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Post time 2015-5-29 10:41:06 |Display all floors
seneca Post time: 2015-5-29 10:32
It is YOU that is confused, Babe. Kosovars essentially is a synonym with the word "Albanians". O ...

Serbs were the majority population before world war two.  Look it up.  They have been there since the sixth century.  So has albanians.  Neither have ever had the area exclusively.  Never, not one time.  They have a shared history together.  But serbs were the majority population until WWII.  FACT
  
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Post time 2015-5-29 10:57:55 |Display all floors
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Post time 2015-5-29 11:01:09 |Display all floors
JFenix Post time: 2015-5-28 21:13
That is insane.  Firstly, you are talking about Albanians, not kosovars which includes serbians.   ...

You are right my dear. Many Albanians migrated to Kosovo, escaping the harsh regime of Hoxha, and were given refuge by the former Yugoslavia.

The KLA was established under Hoxha to infiltrate the Albanian population of Kosovo but remained dormant as the Kosovo Albanians like the Serbs adored Tito. However, the organization never failed to be noticed by the West, who once Tito died used it to stir trouble and the destruction of Yugoslavia. The reasons for the destruction of Yugoslavia are deep and convoluted, but it involved secret agreements with Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Europe will be paying for the stupidity of going along with US plans in days to come....... if there are any.
The world needs more idiots like me, all the others think they are clever.

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Post time 2015-5-29 11:18:53 |Display all floors
seneca Post time: 2015-5-29 10:57
Sure they were. That doesn't mean they were not expansionist. My history perspective covers many c ...

This is according to wikipedia, but I have seen other sources that are slightly different.  At any rate, they both have a shared history with each other for centuries.  It was due to the various empires that occupied kosovo that led to ethnic cleansing of serbians from the area.  There is no doubt of this.  The ottomans, the austro-hungarians and the nazis.  It was imperialism that is the underlying cause of all the issues in the balkans.  In that respect, its not much different than what the middle east went through with the ottomans and the british empire.   Both occupied and changed borders, religions and ethic composition.

1487
The defter of 1487 in the Branković lands recorded:
Vučitrn district:
16,729 Christian households (412 in Pristina and Vučitrn)
117 Muslim households (94 in Pristina and 83 in rural areas)
Ipek (Peć) district:
Ipek (town)
121 Christian households
33 Muslim households
Suho Grlo and Metohija:
131 Christian households of which 52% in Suho Grlo were Serbs
Donja Klina - 50% Serbs
Deçan - 64% Serbs
Rural areas:
6,124 Christian households (99%)
55 Muslim households (1%)
16th century[edit]
1520–1535[edit]
Vučitrn: 19,614 households
Christians
700 Muslim households (3,5%)
Prizren
Christians
359 Muslim households (2%)

1582–83
Main article: 1582–83 defter of the Sanjak of Scutari
The 1582–83 defter of the Sanjak of Scutari recorded the Peć nahiya as having 235 villages of which some 30 have Albanian families besides the majorital Orthodox Serbs. The Altun-li nahiya had 41 villages with a Serb majority and Albanian minority.[20]

1591
Ottoman defter from 1591:[21]
Prizren – Serbian majority, significant Albanian minority
Gora – Serbian.
Opolje – Albanian Muslim.

17th – 18th centuries
The Great Turkish War of 1683–1699 between the Ottomans and the Habsburgs led to the flight of a substantial numbers of Serbs and Albanians who had sided with the Austrians, from within and outside Kosovo, to Austrian held Vojvodina and the Military Frontier – Patriarch Arsenije III, one of the refugees, referred to 30,000 or 40,000 souls, but a much later monastic source referred to 37,000 families. Serbian historians have used this second source to talk of a Great Migration of Serbs. Wars in 1717–1738 led to a second exodus of refugees (both Serbian and Albanian) from inside and outside Kosovo, together with reprisals and the enslavement and deportation of a number of Serbs and Albanians by the victorious Ottomans.[22]

19th century[edit]

Ethnographic map of Balkans (detail), Atlas Général Vidal-Lablache, Paris, 1898.
19th century data about the population of Kosovo tend to be rather conflicting, giving sometimes numerical superiority to the Serbs and sometimes to the Albanians. The Ottoman statistics are regarded as unreliable, as the empire counted its citizens by religion rather than nationality, using birth records rather than surveys of individuals.

A study in 1838 by an Austrian physician, dr. Joseph Müller found Metohija to be mostly "Slavic" in character.[23] Müller gives data for the three counties (Bezirke) of Prizren, Peć and Đakovica which roughly covered Metohija, the portion adjacent to Albania and most affected by Albanian settlers. Out of 195,000 inhabitants in this region, Müller found:
114,000 Muslims (58%):
c. 38,000 are Serbs (19%)
c. 86,000 are Albanians (39%)
Christians:
73,572 Eastern Orthodox Serbs (38%)
5,120 Roman Catholic Albanians (3%)
2,308 other non-Muslims (Janjevci etc.)
Müller's observations on towns:
Peć: 11,050 Serbs, 500 Albanians
Prizren: 16,800 Serbs, 6150 Albanians
Gjakova: majority of Albanians, surrounding villages Serbian
Map published by French ethnographer G. Lejean[24] in 1861 shows that Albanians lived on around 57% Kosovo while a similar map, published by British travellers G. M. Mackenzie and A. P. Irby[24] in 1867 shows slightly less; these maps don't show which population was larger overall. Nevethless, maps cannot be used to measure population as they leave out density.
A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj[25] for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:
318,000 Serbs (64%),
161,000 Albanians (32%),
10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
2,000 Turks

Ethnic distribution of Albanians, The Historical Atlas, New York, 1911
Modern Serbian sources estimated that around 400,000[26] Serbs were cleansed out of the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912.

Maps published by German historian Kiepert[24] in 1876, J. Hahn[24] and Austrian consul K. Sax,[24] show that Albanians live on most of the territory of what is now Kosovo, however they don't show which population is larger. According to these, the regions of Kosovska Mitrovica and Kosovo Polje were settled mostly by Serbs, whereas most of the territory of western and eastern parts of today's province was settled by Muslim Albanians.

An Austrian statistics[27] published in 1899 estimated:
182,650 Albanians (47.88%)
166,700 Serbs (43.7%)

At the end of the 19th century, Spiridon Gopchevich, an Austrian traveller – comprised a statistics and published them in Vienna. They established that Prizren had 60,000 citizens of whom 11,000 were Christian Serbs and 36,000 Muslem Serbs. The remaining population were Turks, Albanians, Tzintzars and Roma. For Peć he said that it had 2,530 households of which 1,600 were Mohammedan, 700 Christian Serb, 200 Catholic Albanian and 10 Turkish.
Note: Territory of Ottoman Kosovo Vilayet was quite different from modern-day Kosovo.

Early 20th century[edit]

Ethnic composition of Kosovo in 1911
British journalist H. Brailsford estimated in 1906[28] that two-thirds of the population of Kosovo was Albanian and one-third Serbian. The most populous western districts of Gjakova and Peć were said to have between 20,000 and 25,000 Albanian households, as against some 5,000 Serbian ones. A map of Alfred Stead,[29] published in 1909, shows that similar numbers of Serbs and Albanians were living in the territory.
German scholar Gustav Weigand gave the following statistical data about the population of Kosovo,[30] based on the pre-war situation in Kosovo in 1912:
Pristina District: 67% Albanians, 30% Serbs
Prizren District: 63% Albanians, 36% Serbs
Vučitrn District: 90% Albanians, 10% Serbs
Ferizaj District: 70% Albanians, 30% Serbs
Gnjilane District: 75% Albanians, 23% Serbs
Mitrovica District: 60% Serbs, 40% Albanians
Metohija with the town of Gjakova is furthermore defined as almost exclusively Albanian by Weigand.[30]

Citing Serbian sources, Noel Malcolm also states that in 1912 when Kosovo came under Serbian control, "the Orthodox Serb population [was] at less than 25%" of Kosovo's entire population.[31]
Interwar period[edit]
1921 census[edit]

Ethnographic map of Europe in 1922, C.S. Hammond & Co.

Distribution of Races in the Balkan Peninsula and Asia Minor in 1923, William R. Shepherd Atlas
The 1921 Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes population census for the territories comprising modern day Kosovo listed 439,010 inhabitants:
By religion:
Muslims: 329,502 (75.1%)
Orthodox Serb: 93,203 (21.2%)
Roman Catholics: 15,785 (3.6%)
Jews: 427
Greek Catholics: 26
By native language:
Albanian: 288,907 (65.8%)
Serbian or Croatian: 114,095 (26.0%)
Turkish: 27,915 (6.4%)
Romanian-Cincarian: 402
Slovene: 184
German: 30
Hungarian: 12

It should be noted that the Yugoslav government settled Serbs and Montenegrins in the region, after past depopulation due to wars and Muslim emigration to Turkey.

1931 census
According to the 1931 Kingdom of Yugoslavia population census, there were 552,064 inhabitants in today's Kosovo.
By religion:
Muslims: 379,981 (68.83%)
Orthodox Serbs: 150,745 (27.31%)
Roman Catholics: 20,568 (3.73%)
Evangelists: 114 (0.02%)
other: 656 (0.12%)
By native language:
Albanians: 331,549 (60.06%)
Serbs, Croats, Slovenes and Macedonians: 180,170 (32.64%)
Hungarians: 426 (0.08%)
Germans: 241 (0.04%)
other Slavs: 771 (0.14%)
other: 38,907 (7.05%)

World War II
Most of the territory of today's province was occupied by Italian-controlled Greater Albania, massacres of some 10,000[32][33] Serbs, ethnic cleansing of about 100[32] to 250,000[32][34] or more[33][unreliable source?] occurred.
Nazi Germany estimated that from November 1943 to February 1944, 40 000 Serbs fled Italian-occupied Kosovo for Montenegro and Serbia.

Censuses
1948 census
727,820 total inhabitants:
498,242 Albanians (68.46%)
171,911 Serbs (23.62%)
28,050 Montenegrins (3.86%)
11,230 Roma (1.54%)
5,290 Croats (0.73%)
1,315 Turks (0.18%)
526 Macedonians (0.07%)
362 Russians (0.05%)
283 Slovenes (0.04%)
197 Germans (0.03%)
83 Hungarians (0.01%)
77 Bulgarians (0.01%)
39 Italians
31 Rusyns
29 Czechs
18 Romanians
2 Slovaks
9,679 undecided Muslims (1.33%)
456 other and unknown (0.06%)

1953 census
808,141 total inhabitants
524,559 Albanians (64.91%)
189,969 Serbs (23.51%)
34,583 Turks (4.28%)
31,343 Montenegrins (3.88%)
6,201 Croat (0.77%)
972 Macedonians (0.12%)
411 Slovenes (0.05%)
6,241 undecided Yugoslav (0.77%)
401 other Slav (0.05%)
13,561 others (1.68%)

1961 census
963,959 total inhabitants
646,604 Albanians (67.08%)
227,016 Serbs (23.55%)
37,588 Montenegrins (3.9%)
8,026 Ethnic Muslims (0.83%)
7,251 Croat (0.75%)
5,203 Yugoslavs (0.54%)
3,202 Romani (0.33%)
1,142 Macedonians (0.12%)
510 Slovenes (0.05%)
210 Hungarians (0.02%)

  
Behold the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.

                          -  James Bryant Conant

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Post time 2015-5-29 11:22:00 |Display all floors
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