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CNN calls Gadhafi to the podium again [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2009-11-16 23:20:16 |Display all floors
Five days ago CNN and Gadafi's spoke to the world about a new Jihad Code. They said it was authored by LIFG members (who happen to produce it after they all had been tortured and most of them killed).

I posted a reply to this news on the CNN website. My post is listed below. Five days after my post, CNN has invited Gadafi's to speak about the very same topic once again. Strangely, he seems to have spoken directly to all of my major points.

I'm honored Mr Qaddafi, but I wish I had a chance to reply. CNN is not allowing comments this time. So all of Gadafi's statements can not be rebutted. That's too bad, because I'd like to reiterate that when you torture someone, when you kill off some of their friends, and when you threaten their family you can not then say their recantations are credible.

I'd like to add that LIFG has lost a lot of members and credibility even before they were forced to sign the code to please their most hated foe. There is a reason why Al Qaeda is enjoying a huge influx of new recruits in the region. It's because LIFG has lost it's power and it's few surviving old-timers have surrendered to Gadafi. Now dedicated Jihadist are abandoning the LIFG and traveling to join the Algerian branch of Al Qaeda.

Because Al Qaeda has become the dominant Jihadist force in the region, Gadafi's and some very strange bedfellows are teaming up in a truly incredible attempt to discredit the most credentialed threat they know.

Here are the important statements I made with rebuttals listed immediately after the things I said:

Me: "Credible" is the key word. The author misused this word. There is nothing credible about a document written in prison by those suffering torture and slaughter. How many of the LIFG have been murdered behind bars? Some tortured prisoners who still survive have capitulated in return for freedom? This is not a new Jihad Code, it's a joke. This farce is a propaganda attack against the truly credible Jihadist around the world who remain committed to holy war.

Gadafi's: The respect with which the LIFG is held in Jihadist circles will likely hurt al Qaeda's recruiting efforts in Libya and further afield. "If someone from the government starts talking [about] how bad is that terrorist activities it will not be received in the same way as when it comes from the leaders of the terrorist group because [they] have more credibility," Saif al Islam Gadhafi told CNN.

Benotman (Gadafi's new BFF), "Sure, some say that this message is coming from old-timers who are not fighting any more. Sure they use emotional blackmail and say we are dying for you and you say this? But what I'm trying to do is to start to make the young think."

What I said: America, Israel, their friends, and some non-Islamic governments in the middle-east have killed millions of woman and children. It is impossible to fight back against that without killing a few civilians.

Gadafi's replied: "We have to prevent those people from killing Muslims and Arabs and innocent people in Libya and Algeria and the best thing is that to let those people who led the terrorist activities in the past to show up and speak and talk about their experience and this is the best weapon against terrorism in our world," Gaddafi told CNN.

Me: "There is no new Jihadist Code. Just a few beaten LIFG members have been broken in body, mind, and spirit, men in their horrible situation can not be faulted for giving up. Libya is famous for it's torture, even the CIA's torture is less gruesome and relentless than Libya's. After years of tender care in a Libyan prison you could get anyone to say anything -- but it wouldn't be credible."

Gaddafi: "We don't dictate anything on them and we are not telling them you have to write this or say this no, no, no. Not at all otherwise it would be a fake game, like everything was authentic it should be real and sincere otherwise it will be just a game. Nobody can impose anything on them"


My original statement posted 5 days ago:
"Credible" is the key word. The author misused this word. There is nothing credible about a document written in prison by those suffering torture and slaughter. How many of the LIFG have been murdered behind bars? Some tortured prisoners who still survive have capitulated in return for freedom? This is not a new Jihad Code, it's a joke. This farce is a propaganda attack against the truly credible Jihadist around the world who remain committed to holy war.

America, Israel, their friends, and some non-Islamic governments in the middle-east have killed millions of woman and children. It is impossible to fight back against that without killing a few civilians. We are lucky they don't have the means to do as we do, because we drop massive bunker busters and cluster bombs in crowded population centers. We have killed more than 1000 women and children for every one killed by a Jihadist -- so then who is the greater evil?

Together with the nations we have killed millions of Islamic civilians. When we will create a new and "credible" code for fighting that will prevent us from killing women and children? We are fortunate that the Jihadist simply kill their prisoners. Similar to Libya, we often torture before we kill our prisoners. So, we kill more and torture more, we never give them a moment of peace, how can we still wonder why they fight? Consult history, you'll see we started this war and we continued it over the years.

There is no new Jihadist Code. Just a few beaten LIFG members have been broken in body, mind, and spirit, men in their horrible situation can not be faulted for giving up. Libya is famous for it's torture, even the CIA's torture is less gruesome and relentless than Libya's. After years of tender care in a Libyan prison you could get anyone to say anything -- but it wouldn't be credible.
pissing-on-propaganda.jpg

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Post time 2009-11-16 23:28:05 |Display all floors
CNN's gave Gadaffi a platform again today, here is the article that followed mine.

(CNN) -- In what may prove one of the biggest breakthroughs against Islamist terrorism since 9/11, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), a militant Libyan Jihadist group, once allied with Osama bin Laden and with close personal ties to al Qaeda's senior leadership, is publicly repudiating al Qaeda's ideology.

Many expect the breakthrough talks to have an impact far beyond Libya.

The LIFG's disavowal of the use of violence to achieve political ends, its criticism of attacks in the West and its clear-cut ruling that the killing of civilians is never legitimate from an Islamic point of view, amount to a stunning rebuke of Bin Laden's brand of Jihad, from former allies with significant credibility amongst Jihadists worldwide.

The respect with which the LIFG is held in Jihadist circles will likely hurt al Qaeda's recruiting efforts in Libya and further afield. "If someone from the government starts talking [about] how bad is that terrorist activities it will not be received in the same way as when it comes from the leaders of the terrorist group because [they] have more credibility," Saif al Islam Gadhafi told CNN.

Gadhafi was in no doubt about the significance of the breakthrough: "It's big news. It's a big thing ... especially in the Middle East and North Africa for sure."


Noman Benotman, a key intermediary in the talks, told CNN that the LIFG's revisions will be "a very big shock" to al Qaeda.

Libyan officials hope that the revisions document will have an impact in Algeria in particular. In the last two years Libyan security services have grown increasingly concerned about the rising number of attacks launched across the region by al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), al Qaeda's North African affiliate.

They have also grown concerned about the number of Libyans traveling across to Algeria to join the group. Over the last months LIFG revisions have been serialized in leading newspapers in Algeria and disseminated by the government to militants across the country. Libyan sources told CNN that, while it is still early days, the document may already have made an impact in Algeria because since the revisions were published attacks are down.

"We have to prevent those people from killing Muslims and Arabs and innocent people in Libya and Algeria and the best thing is that to let those people who led the terrorist activities in the past to show up and speak and talk about their experience and this is the best weapon against terrorism in our world," Gadhafi told CNN.

The impact these revisions will have will likely depend on how they are viewed among the radical-leaning Muslims al Qaeda is targeting for recruitment. Several hard-line Jihadist critics have stated that the LIFG only wrote the revisions because it was coerced to do so by the Libyan security services inside prison.

It's a big thing ... especially in the Middle East and North Africa for sure
--Saif Gadhafi
But the LIFG's leaders insist the document is genuine. So too does Gadhafi: "We don't dictate anything on them and we are not telling them you have to write this or say this no, no, no. Not at all otherwise it would be a fake game, like everything was authentic it should be real and sincere otherwise it will be just a game. Nobody can impose anything on them," he told CNN.

When we spent time inside Abu Salim prison in early September we were told by several mid-ranking members of the LIFG that the revisions were genuine.

They told us that that being in prison meant that they could not speak completely freely, but that the revisions were the result of a genuine rethink by the group. "Iraq had a big influence on us," one of them told us, referring to al Qaeda in Iraq's increasingly barbaric campaign of violence there.

The LIFG's rethink has been strengthened by the fact that their document has been endorsed by a half dozen leading Islamic clerics from around the Middle East, including Yusuf al Qaradawi, a highly influential Egyptian cleric based in Qatar who threw his weight behind the Libyan reconciliation process in a live-televised Friday sermon last month.

The revisions may resonate all the more because they are just the latest critique of al Qaeda from within the Jihadist movement.

In recent years Jihadist leaders and groups in Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia have also turned against bin Laden's terrorist network, disturbed by the growing number of Muslim victims of al Qaeda terrorism.

In September 2007, for example, Salman al Oudah, a cleric once greatly admired by Bin Laden, personally criticized al Qaeda's leader in a televised address. In the late summer Al Oudah endorsed the LIFG's revisions in a statement on his Web site.

Tarek Durman, a mid-level LIFG commander arrested in Jordan in 2000, told us inside Abu Salim prison, that the revisions "may have an impact on al Qaeda's new recruits by virtue of the support of the Sheikhs [and the fact that it is] the product of a well known group with wide experience ... these people will influence many groups and individuals. I even expect they may have an impact on al Qaeda."

Other LIFG prisoners were more sanguine. "It will have more of an effect on mature Jihadists than young ones," Lotfi Kreir told CNN.

Benotman, a key broker in the talks, accepts that some young extremists will totally close their ears to the LIFG's Revisions. "Sure, some say that this message is coming from old-timers who are not fighting any more. Sure they use emotional blackmail and say we are dying for you and you say this? But what I'm trying to do is to start to make the young think."

It will have more of an effect on mature Jihadists than young ones
--LIFG prisoner
Al Qaeda has thus far not officially commented on the LIFG revisions. According to Benotman, Zawahiri, is maintaining a strategic silence, not wanting to draw more attention to the document. As late as this August Zawahiri heaped praise on LIFG leaders in an online video statement in an apparent attempt to make them think twice about publicly criticizing al Qaeda. That earlier praise may make it all the more difficult for al Qaeda's number two to now attack the revisions.

For al Qaeda the revisions have a sting in the tail because several of its top leaders operating out of the Afghan-Pakistan border region are former members of the LIFG. For Abu Yayha al Libi, currently al Qaeda's chief propagandist, the rebuke from the LIFG was personal.

One of the LIFG Shura Council members who authored the revisions in Abu Salim prison is none other than Abu Yayha's [elder] brother Abd al Wahab al Qaid. Tarek Durman, the mid-level LIFG commander told CNN that he expected Abu Yayha to "not react to this event," something which may weaken al Qaeda's ability to counter the LIFG's arguments.

Gadhafi believes that the process he initiated in 2007 should be a model for other countries in the struggle against Islamist violent extremism. "Even for Americans it is important to engage with al Qaeda, the Taliban.

"Dialogue is more important and more efficient than smart bombs and UEV and bullets. Dialogue is very important because you can kill a 100 or 1000 terrorists but next month next year they will be replaced by others. The most important thing is ... how to kill the source of the terror the ideology, the wrong perception, the wrong ideas, the wrong principles."

Gadhafi added: "We have to prevent those people from killing Muslims and Arabs and innocent people ... and the best thing is to let those people who led the terrorist activities in the past to talk about their experience. This is the best weapon against terrorism in our world."

===End CNN article===
One more thing I posted(2 days ago):
Hard hitting? They forgot to point out that they didn't translate a single thing the prisoners said. They had 4 hours with those brainwash victims and they didn't tell us what was said. This entire story is missing something. How can tortured prisoners author anything credible under duress? If you were tortured in a Libyan prison and forced to sing Qaddafi's praises on camera, do you think that if you wrote a new U.S. Constitution that it would have any credibility?

As if in reply, this latest article reports what a couple of the prisoners said, and they just happen to directly address credibility and nothing else.

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Post time 2011-11-23 20:18:06 |Display all floors
How did it come to this?
He was sure that cooperation with the CIA would keep his crown secure.
I guess he never noticed that America’s puppet kings are eventually killed by their own people.

Saif Al-Islam Captured

Saif Al-Islam Captured

Saif Al-Islam, puppet of the CIA, captured by his own people. Execution scheduled for Christmas day.

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