Author: augusten

Did MI5 kill Dr David Kelly? [Copy link] 中文

Post time 2009-8-9 18:27:24 |Display all floors
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Post time 2009-8-9 18:33:38 |Display all floors
Originally posted by soapdodger at 2009-8-9 18:18
So tell me, where do you get the information supporting your views from?
Chinese academics/historians?
or western academics, hiistorians, journalists etc...? ...


Mostly from out-of-mainstream western historian, journalists.

Those won't be heard by the mainstream and struggling for their own survival.

As to your taboo topics, why are you asking rhetorical questions (3 & 4)?


This is the question they won't try to find answer.

People who are informed and yes informed from western media sources know the answers to (most) these questions. But as to punishment, then let me give you an example in return (one of Emu's favourites). why was CM excused from his policy decsions that were responsible for the deaths of millions? (don't worry, I know the answers and this was not a criticism but an example). Governments will find ways to exonerate their leaders, right or wrong.


Stricly from social science, everyone or every nation need a symbol, to unite beliefs and ideology. This symbol is a mundane thing, with every wrongdoings and shortcomings, but still the existence of symbol is needed. Americans need Washington even if he's a slave owner, Christans need their god even if the bible said their god is a racist butcher, Australian need their queen even if their queen dumped them in a Pacific island. Same as China. To spare other's symbol in a debate is a form of respect, but emucc didn't. So I do the same, I don't need to win respect from someone who don't know the meaning of the word, I prefer to be hated.

But I am no expert on US matters....and please remember that selectively choosing the US to represent all of the west is kind of annoying, then using example of the UK to condemn 'the west', then using Australia, France etc. to condemn 'the west'.  I'm not American, Australian, French etc.I have no allegiances to the Americans, French, Australians..why lump me in with them?


This is strange. I post this thread and them it's you that jumped in.

Have I brand you as a western supremacist?

On topic, but off a slight tangent....which religion do you think has the most secret societies and brotherhoods? You think the Jews control everything?


I don't know.

I think zionists control world's richest bank, world's most powerful lobby (A1PAC), world's most influential media (NY Tiimes, Wash Post, Times, Newsweek, Disney, CNBC etc etc) and they are interested in China.

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Post time 2009-8-9 18:38:59 |Display all floors
Originally posted by soapdodger at 2009-8-9 18:27
Augusten, you do have a short memory don't you? The West & China have been criticizing each other publicly and on the international stage for decades. And not just the media....


You remember 1972?

After condemning China for decades, the US media suddenly praised China's and report positively about China. That was when Noxin visit China and pull China geopolitically on the US side.

So, the western media echoing their government, easy to see.

No, I remind them to mind their own business and clean their own dirty backyard before preaching about sanitary here....

Really. And now I'm beginning to think it is just Anglo-bashing.


You really think so?

I just think any salesman selling soap should be clean enough to persuade his customers to buy.

Now I don't know your logic.

You have admitted that you do criticize your government in Chinese and in private but will go out of your way not to say ANYTHING negative about them on this board. They/you don't have the moral high ground. No one does.


Maybe, I don't claim I have higher moral ground than westerners.

But I claim they are not higher than us.

This is different.

Yes you can.


Maybe, but I'm not here to please any China basher.

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Post time 2009-8-9 21:42:06 |Display all floors
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Post time 2009-8-10 10:09:15 |Display all floors
Originally posted by soapdodger at 2009-8-9 21:42
You think that the west are not in a position to and should not criticize China. ...


The west is in no position to condemn, preach and insult China.

Those providing constructive criticism are welcomed.

You reserve the right to criticize the west to remind them of this.


I reserve the right to retaliate and counter-attack.

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Post time 2009-8-10 13:04:29 |Display all floors
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Post time 2009-8-10 18:26:51 |Display all floors
Originally posted by soapdodger at 2009-8-10 13:04
What you failed to mention though, is that before you can be constructive you need to highlight the problem areas. As soon as that happens...the sensitivity kicks in...and the air is awash with cries of China-Basher!...


There's many issue that excite China bashers, ugly things that happened in China but don't exist in developed countries.

I'm able to differ whether they brought this issue just for their pleasure or whether thet really concerned about China.

To be honest, I don't see much evidence in your approach that you can differentiate between criticism & constructive criticism.


When western media criticize Chinese policy toward Tbet, but at the same time ignore CIA involvement in DL personification.
I consider this as outrageous attack, not constructive criticism.

When NED, Human Rights Watch, Open Society, Freedom House criticise Chinese human rights record, but at the same time they cooperate with CIA.
I consider this propaganda assault from the biggest terrorist organization in the world..

When they criticise Chinese environment problems, but at the same time ignore the fact that westerners is the biggest polluter in the planet.
I consider them working for western interest.

Tell me which of the above is wrong.

The population at large certainly cannot, especially in terms of the idea that criticism of government is different from criticism of a country.


This is typical western mentality: "We are criticizing your government, not your country", enlarging the division between people and government.

Classic divide and conquer.

What you forget when you scan the foreign press is that they (in democratic societies) constantly criticize and evaluate the performance of those who govern them. In much the same way that the Chinese do on the BBS'.  Except we criticize the government a great deal more (over the last decades not just currently), even more so than some of the regular trolls on these boards. When you criticize the government on these BBS' it is easy for you to make the distinction of government vs. country.


Chinese support government's policy in Tbet, Xnjiang,economic development etc etc.

Current policy will bring China to the world's prominence... and this is not what majority of western supremacists want to see.

Why would you think that we are criticizing China when in fact we are criticizing your government (constructively or not)?  Certainly the government does not encourage the population to make that distinction (and we both know why).


Maybe, but you also have to know the anger of Chinese when western media criticize China's during Olympic torch, Tbet riot or Xnjiang.

Almost no Chinese support westerners view point on Tbet, Xnjiang or Olympics.

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