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Post time 2009-3-3 08:59:59 |Display all floors
Originally posted by bern2009 at 2009-3-2 01:30 PM

Potential criminals? No human has has done everything right in his whole life. Or have you?


human beings are impressionable.  bible tells them they are sinners, so they turn criminals.  culture teaches how to be good, so they are good.  

we asians expect our childrens to be better than god.
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Post time 2009-3-3 09:05:55 |Display all floors
Originally posted by bern2009 at 2009-3-2 01:30 PM


Actually I do like Asian culture.


so did bertrand russell, extremely so.  but he wanted us to not obeying parents and worshipping ancestors. godly people, like u and him, either anti- or pro- god should first wrestle ur souls back from god, before embarking on the human stuff from asia.

after getting bitten several times, i have given up talking any christian chinese.  but i forgive u westerners.
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Post time 2009-3-3 14:13:26 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2009-3-3 08:56
the mention of a entity u called god that has caused loss of  more than 100 millions of lives in china.

The MENTION??? I didn't tell you to believe in anything, I didn't try to impose anything on you. When being with Joeching, one must not MENTION God.
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Originally posted by joeching at 2009-3-3 08:56
human beings are impressionable.  bible tells them they are sinners, so they turn criminals.  culture teaches how to be good, so they are good.  

we asians expect our childrens to be better than god.

And in Asia, there are no criminals, right?
And when you tell a person that he has to face his faults, he will become a criminal. Also a very interesting approach.

Originally posted by joeching at 2009-3-3 08:56
so did bertrand russell, extremely so.  but he wanted us to not obeying parents and worshipping ancestors. godly people, like u and him, either anti- or pro- god should first wrestle ur souls back from god, before embarking on the human stuff from asia.

I don't know Bertrand Russel, and I don't care at all about what he said. You are kind of funny.... "Bertrand Russel said this and that, so YOU must not....". I'm not Bertrand Russel, nor am I parented to him, nor am I his disciple. Get this into your brain, if you can. Have you ever talked to Westerners? Normally you should, but your Bertrand-Russel-stuff makes me think you know your "wisdom" about the West only from books.

Originally posted by joeching at 2009-3-3 08:56
after getting bitten several times, i have given up talking any christian chinese.  

I'm not Christian Chinese, so why are you mentioning this here?

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Post time 2009-3-3 21:16:01 |Display all floors
Originally posted by bern2009 at 2009-3-2 10:13 PM
Have you ever talked to Westerners?
Bertrand-Russel


most my western friends, mostly non-chinese, look up to me and listen to me face to face. but when they have the shelter of the internet, they do behave like u do.

russel was the other on the spot journalist during the most critical time of china(1900 to 1949, the other was gu homing).  he said the only thing sun yat sen contributed was getting rid of the pigtail.

here is what he said about china and her people:

BERTRAND RUSSELL(ÂÞËØ) ON CHINA(1922) -- PART I

The Chinese nation is the most patient in the world; it thinks of centuries as other nations think of decades. It is essentially indestructible, and can afford to wait.   If China can avoid being goaded into war, her oppressors may wear themselves out in the end, and leave the Chinese free to pursue humane ends, instead of the war and rapine and destruction which all white nations love. It is perhaps a slender hope for China, and for ourselves it is little better than despair. But unless the Great Powers learn some moderation and some tolerance, I do not see any better possibility, though I see many that are worse.

The Chinese have discovered, and have practised for many centuries, a way of life which, if it could be adopted by all the world, would make all the world happy. We Europeans have not. Our way of life demands strife, exploitation, restless change, discontent and destruction. Efficiency directed to destruction can only end in annihilation, and it is to this consummation that our civilization is tending, if it cannot learn some of that wisdom for which it despises the East.

The persistence of the Chinese Empire down to our own day is not to be attributed to any military skill; on the contrary, considering its extent and resources, it has at most times shown itself weak and incompetent in war. Its southern neighbours were even less warlike, and were less in extent.

The Huns were defeated by the Chinese after centuries of warfare; the Tartars and Manchus, on the contrary, conquered China. But they were too few and too uncivilized to impose their ideas or their way of life upon China, which absorbed them and went on its way as if they had never existed.

In spite of geographical advantages, however, the persistence of Chinese civilization, fundamentally unchanged since the introduction of Buddhism, is a remarkable phenomenon.Egypt and Babylonia persisted as long, but since they fell there has been nothing comparable in the world. Perhaps the main cause is the immense population of China, with an almost complete identity of culture throughout.        
Confucius (B.C. 551-479) must be reckoned, as regards his social influence, with the founders of religions. His effect on institutions and on men's thoughts has been of the same kind of magnitude as that of Buddha, Christ, or Mahomet, but curiously different in its nature. Unlike Buddha and Christ, he is a completely historical character, about whose life a great deal is known, and with whom legend and myth have been less busy than with most men of his kind.

What most distinguishes him from other founders is that he inculcated a strict code of ethics, which has been respected ever since, but associated it with very little religious dogma, which gave place to complete theological scepticism in the countless generations of Chinese literati who revered his memory and administered the Empire.

The virtues he sought to inculcate were not those of personal holiness, or designed to secure salvation in a future life, but rather those which lead to a peaceful and prosperous community here on earth. His outlook was essentially conservative, and aimed at preserving the virtues of former ages.

He did not, however, lay any stress upon supernatural matters. In answer to a question, he gave the following definition of wisdom: "To cultivate earnestly our duty towards our neighbour, and to reverence spiritual beings while maintaining always a due reserve."
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Post time 2009-3-3 21:16:34 |Display all floors

russel continue...

But reverence for spiritual beings was not an active part of Confucianism, except in the form of ancestor-worship, which was part of filial piety, and thus merged in duty towards one's neighbour. Filial piety included obedience to the Emperor, except when he was so wicked as to forfeit his divine right¡ªfor the Chinese, unlike the Japanese, have always held that resistance to the Emperor was justified if he governed very badly.

The following passage from Professor Giles illustrates this point:¡ª
The Emperor has been uniformly regarded as the son of God by adoption only, and liable to be displaced from that position as a punishment for the offence of misrule.... If the ruler failed in his duties, the obligation of the people was at an end, and his divine right disappeared simultaneously.

Apart from filial piety, Confucianism was, in practice, mainly a code of civilized behaviour, degenerating at times into an etiquette book. It taught self-restraint, moderation, and above all courtesy.

It was not difficult for a man of the world to live up to the more imperative parts of the Confucian teaching. But in order to do this he must exercise at all times a certain kind of self-control¡ªan extension of the kind which children learn when they are taught to "behave." He must not break into violent passions; he must not be arrogant; he must "save face," and never inflict humiliations upon defeated adversaries; he must be moderate in all things, never carried away by excessive love or hate; in a word, he must keep calm reason always in control of all his actions.

This attitude existed in Europe in the eighteenth century, but perished in the French Revolution: romanticism, Rousseau, and the guillotine put an end to it. In China, though wars and revolutions have occurred constantly, Confucian calm has survived them all, making them less terrible for the participants, and making all who were not immediately involved hold aloof.

It is bad manners in China to attack your adversary in wet weather. Wu-Pei-Fu, I am told, once did it, and won a victory; the beaten general complained of the breach of etiquette; so Wu-Pei-Fu went back to the position he held before the battle, and fought all over again on a fine day. (It should be said that battles in China are seldom bloody.) In such a country, militarism is not the scourge it is with us; and the difference is due to the Confucian ethics.
China is practically destitute of religion, not only in the upper classes, but throughout the population. There is a very definite ethical code, but it is not fierce or persecuting, and does not contain the notion "sin." Except quite recently, through European influence, there has been no science and no industrialism.


BERTRAND RUSSELL ON CHINA -- PART II(i ll post if u r interested)
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Post time 2009-3-3 23:09:14 |Display all floors
Originally posted by bern2009 at 2009-3-2 10:13 PM
I'm not Christian Chinese


how should i know.  nobody never tell me nothing.
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Post time 2009-3-4 04:03:29 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2009-3-3 21:16
most my western friends, mostly non-chinese, look up to me and listen to me face to face. but when they have the shelter of the internet, they do behave like u do.

You are older than me, so my words were kind of impolite. Sorry then.
At the other hand, I hope also you, you don't behave in real life like you do here. Telling every of your Western friends and workmates that they are barbarians, monkeys (and worse).

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