Author: joeching

FUTURE OF LANGUAGES [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2009-1-18 09:20:08 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2009-1-18 04:44


if i hate anything, its the trashing of the chinese traditional characters and the disastrous effects, as reflected in asian countries' rush to mechanize their language for materialistic aims.  forget about all the treasuries in all the museums and buried in tombs, nothing is more precious than our pre-barbarism language, which embodied our culture.

as to english, it serves its purpose as a universal computing language, at least for now.  i v trim it down to be learnt in 2 weeks.  add a day or two if u want to participate the the development of my macro-operating system, robacus.  also, i could switch english to chinese or korea(after i learn it in a few months) in one day, with our own robotic editor.  


I can understand wanting to preserve Chinese characters for mother-tongue speakers of Chinese, but this might be a tough sell for Koreans. After all, their own script is much easier than Chinese cahracters. It would seem strange to systematiclaly choose an auxiliary language that's even more difficult than your own mother-tongue, wouldn't it? After all, the purpose of an auxiliary language is not to replace the mother-tongue but to act as an auxiliary to it. So if we want this second-language to be accessible to the general population of China, Japan and Korea, and not just the elites, then should we not choose a more advanced script such as the one designed by King Sae Jong, that was designed with logic and ease of learning in mind?

As Confucius himself said:

"If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the
truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of
things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.
  "When affairs cannot be carried on to success, proprieties and music
do not flourish. When proprieties and music do not flourish,
punishments will not be properly awarded. When punishments are not
properly awarded, the people do not know how to move hand or foot.
  "Therefore a superior man considers it necessary that the names he
uses may be spoken appropriately, and also that what he speaks may
be carried out appropriately. What the superior man requires is just
that in his words there may be nothing incorrect."


And also:

"In language it is simply required that it convey
the meaning."


So even the Chinese classical literature seems to agree that the primary objective of language is to convey meaning. This being the case, to create an auxiliary language that is more difficult to learn than your own mother-tongue would be contradictory to the very classical culture you espouse.
四海之内皆兄弟
-孔子

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Post time 2009-1-18 09:22:10 |Display all floors
yes. a picture is more than thousands words.

but a picture may mistake to thousands of meaning.
As a well-spent day brings happy sleep, so life well used brings happy death.

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Post time 2009-1-18 11:04:22 |Display all floors
Originally posted by lestrois at 2009-1-18 09:22
yes. a picture is more than thousands words.

but a picture may mistake to thousands of meaning.


Especially when we're dealing with international communication, for which this auxiliary language would be intended. From that standpoint, it would be important for the grammar of the auxiliary language to be at least as precise as that of the national language, if not more so.
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-孔子

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Post time 2009-1-18 15:52:43 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tianyuanedu at 2009-1-17 05:20 PM


I can understand wanting to preserve Chinese characters for mother-tongue speakers of Chinese, but this might be a tough sell for Koreans. After all, their own script is much easier than Chines ...


personally, i cant even write chinese, so i really dont care much about preserving for myself.  i m just alerting the chinese that they r trashing the greatest treasure ever created by man, the chinese writing characters before its simplified.

as to the koreans, han characters were as their as they belong to the chinese.  in the past, most of the koreans were artificially prevented from learning it, and were forced to learn a more inferior version.

i v learn enough korea to be convinced that the current language is a positive contribution.  my proposal would be that it be taught to all asians in schools, just like japanese and other members of the asian family, kind like affirmative action for the smaller nations.  then once, say in 10 years, enough exposure is made, we should just let things run its natural course.  my feeling is that the han charactrers are here to stay.  the alphabets of korean and japan could rival english as a technical language, and for improve the politeness and musicness in the deadbeat han characters when used vocally.
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Post time 2009-1-18 16:08:32 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tianyuanedu at 2009-1-17 05:20 PM
Confucius:
What the superior man requires is just
that in his words there may be nothing incorrect."

"In language it is simply required that it convey
the meaning."

So even the Chinese classical literature seems to agree that the primary objective of language is to convey meaning. This being the case, to create an auxiliary language that is more difficult to learn than your own mother-tongue would be contradictory to the very classical culture you espouse.


well, confucius wife also said to confucius: u talk too much.

my view of confucius is not that he teached us anything good, but described us quite accurately.  in so doing, he planted the seed for china's expansionary unification to make what she is today.  i think we should carry on asia unification the same way.

with all the lying going, vividly demonstrated by english, i think we need to go beyong "conveying the meaning" and be "nothing incorrect", we need to communicate our feelings.  all asian language excell in this respect.

as to the new(not auxillary) language, we need to invest about 10 years to unify, then trim the combined languages down to the best we can(china kind has two languages right now.  that's a big joke).  and that's the first step toward asia unification.

again, not everyone needs to learn it.  but they should given the chance to learn the best, not any watered down version.  and as to the tech (english or any alphabetical language)language, once 0.1% people start to use it, the human race would enter the postscarcity era, like i did 25 years ago.
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Post time 2009-1-18 16:11:13 |Display all floors
Originally posted by lestrois at 2009-1-17 05:22 PM
yes. a picture is more than thousands words.

but a picture may mistake to thousands of meaning.


good and innovative point!

so we should just forget about "meaning", along with any potential lying.  chinese have been feeling each other out since all those pictures popped up on the scene.
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Post time 2009-1-18 16:19:19 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tianyuanedu at 2009-1-17 07:04 PM


Especially when we're dealing with international communication, for which this auxiliary language would be intended. From that standpoint, it would be important for the grammar of the auxiliary ...


the international tech language is served to equalize the digitally haves and havenots.  it is design to get the tech job done, not for communications, which should be done either thru translation of the main cult language or learn the other guys' language.

but the most important point about the tech international language is the its precision is completely governed by computer -- raising to the same level of zeror tolerance as the computer.  to understand, u might need to look at the youtube videos on ROBOCOM, the predecessor to ROBACUS(that costed me 20k to makejust the browse the video thru fast(total 30 min),unless u want to really get ur feet wet, if u r a computer type and familiar with linux)

robocom preface -- robotic computing
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhNe1l6spc>

robocom overview part I
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr91NedvVV4>
robocom overview part II
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKZNTOK6vM>

robocom introduction -part i
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXRn-agiIeo>
robocom introduction -part ii
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_XcpqtU6-I>

robocom development -- part i
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9X4iS6xW-I>
robocom development -- part ii
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNYeaOj-6Ak>
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