Author: joeching

FUTURE OF LANGUAGES [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2009-1-17 20:51:43 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2009-1-16 11:26 PM
So, Joe, if I understand you well you want to retain English for pragmatic, very business-like reasons but you want to banish the language from your ears and from everybody's mouth?

Realistic?? ...


ur r rite, but only about the tech subset of the whole language.  and u did show some insight in that all tech work, or mostly programming, is in getting the variables right.  everything else can be left to the computer, or more precisely the computer intelligence(which is definitely not easy).

the main part of the language for conversation, making poems and doing forums is the cultural language.  this part should only be inclusive(or chinese, japanese and korea, and others) and trimmed down eventually.  but they should be the best they can be, not like the simplified chinese characters -- a half-baked tech/cult language.
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Post time 2009-1-17 21:03:54 |Display all floors
Originally posted by richardk at 2009-1-17 01:45 AM


Well you must be quite young - computers are entirely based on mathematics, BASIC was one of the first attempts to make them use English as a language, before that we used mathematics, miles of ...


basic, fortran, c etc, are languages that computers can understand without ambiguity, but not humans.  i m talking about the same programing language as basic, fortran and c, that both humans and computer can understand without ambiguity.  the trick is in program a brain into computer with computer's own preferred way of thinking, rather than artificially copying from the way human thinks, which is just too error prong.  once the computer intelligence is there, it must be used to lead the users in their problem formulation and solution, all done in plain english.

what i m really saying is that i got the computer-intelligence brain all constructed and it has been used in many applications, with efficiency and reliability unsurpassed by any other means.  i m really not "introducing" a new language -- i just happen to realize the language i v been using talking to my intelligent computer should be our universal tech language. be it based on english or not is unimportant, except for the fact, if it's not in english, then the products will not have a market.
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Post time 2009-1-17 21:12:21 |Display all floors
Originally posted by richardk at 2009-1-17 02:44 AM


Joe languages are not that hard, maybe you should consider that it is you who are reaching out to the rest of the world and it is you that needs to put in the leg work to learn, lowering the st ...


i retired so that i dont have to waste time making money.

how else do u think i can develop the engine for my natural-language programming language(think of it as plain-english basic, if u must).  and the important thing is that i can put this out in the public domain free of charge, kind like linux.

besides, this was not my top priority.  i need time to develop the winniest tennis game for women for my daughter and i v developing the ultimate game of pingpong based on kungfu for the last 10 years.  this is because i consider fitness is more important than technology.  but without culture, nothing has meaning.
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Post time 2009-1-17 23:43:34 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2009-1-17 20:44


in culture-oriented countries,like in asia and arab countries, communication is done in art form and the exchange is by feelings and moods.  but in material-oriented countries like the west, it's more mental sparring than anything else -- to brainwash or counter-posture.

i m suggesting  han characters for the cultural communication independent of any technical communication.  the latter should be flexible on the interface end, but iron-clad rigidity in the computer end, where computer intelligence and automated nomenclature convention should guide the logic.  

the computer intelligence, that i v been working on all my tech career, is really what the tech language is all about.  i have only brought it up speed to the point where others can take over the development.  but these "others" had better be the best the world can offer, since we are talking about creating, cummulative an unlimited computer brain.  a handful of the best programmers in the world can bring it to a level that would make technology, thus material pursuit, something trivial.  


This is grossly oversimplified. I was actually shocked to find the PRC to be more materialistic than even Canada (and Canada is quite materialistic too unfortunately). So I don't think we can so easily say that the East is cultured while the West is strictly materialistic. You're just showing prejudice towards your culture there.

As for introducing Han characters in Korea, why would you want to rewind history? King Sae Jong the Great had created the Korean characters specifically for the purpose of spreading literacy in Korea. Many of the elites of his time opposed him since this would threaten their monopoly on information. Now you're suggesting that an international Far-Eastern language should go back to the pre-Sae-Jong times and re-introduce the very elitism that the great king had tried to eliminate all those centuries ago? Would it not make more sense to go forward by promoting more justice among the population rather than re-introduce the elitist system of centuries ago in Korea? Shoud we not be stepping forwards rather than backwards?
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Post time 2009-1-18 00:39:13 |Display all floors
Originally posted by petera at 2009-1-16 10:24
Newspeak

Remember Newspeak in 1984 ? The principle is being used currently to reduce the vocabulary of
the Proles.With the demise of reading most Proles have a declining vocabulary determined by the
sitcoms and other rubbish they watch on FAUX. This is highly beneficial,as Winston's colleague at the
Ministry of Truth explained.It makes Thoughcrime less likely since the vocabulary required for non
orthodox thought does not exist.Try to tell the average Prole that 9/11 was an inside job or that all people are created equal.How can a raghead or a n*gger be equal to someone brainwashed by FAUX since
birth and who believe "ragheads" couple with camels.  


I don't think so. I think what Joe is getting at (if I understand correctly) is to create a human language that is easier to learn than English but still capable of the full range of expression of any other language, with a subset of the same language for computing. If that's the case, then it would be radically different from New Speak since the objective of Newspeak was to limit not just vocabulary, but thought too.
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Post time 2009-1-18 00:54:45 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2009-1-17 06:09


everything u said make a lot of sense.  but my perspective is really just from a techical problem solver.   i see culture as the time-tested tool for the world to get out this period of barbarism.  the asia culture(or the land where the culture of confucius, buddhism and taoism) should be used to unite some countries as it did in the confucius days.  i would be more than glad to see europe achieve the same, but i dont think the culture and the language can really cut it.

as for europe, the first thing they need to resolve is getting to the bottom of what really happened between the jews and hitler(i v been tracking hitler and found most stories are jewish propaganda, which help nobody, least of all jews.)  all europeans need to search deep within them to expose what made them overt or covert anti-semite.  and the jews need to listen to their findings and make some self-correction(like stop killing the the gaza rite away) so the world can turn around on its way to armaggeddon.  


So what you're really talking about here is spirituality. I fully agree that before any kind of brotherhood and justice can come to the nations of the world, we must first establish a common culture, and that culture would need to be founded on some common spiritual foundation. Neither the Christian nor Jewish Faiths teach hatred. But unfortunately many of their followers have not followed those teachings. As Gandhi once said:

I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

The same can apply to Buddhism too. It applies to all relgions. If your read their sacred texts, there's not much we can disagree with, at least on the spiritual front. It's just that few actually put their faith into practice.

This, by the way, applies to language too. To just take some examples. King Sae Jong the Great had created the Korean script out of a sense of justice, compassion, and love for his subjects. He wanted to spread literacy to the poor, and found that the best way to do so was to create a language they could all learn.

Dr. Zamenhof is another example., He was a Polish Jew saddened by the animosity caused in his home country owing in part to the language barrier. He'd concluded that by creating a language that was easy to learn, that while this language might not solve all the world's problems, it would at least solve those caused as a direct result of misunderstandings.

You too are motivated to create a language designed to be easy for the common people to learn. That in my opinion is the height of culture. Artistic beauty was found even in Nazi Germany, with beautiful shows and inspiring musical melodies and films. Beatiful as it was artistically, its culture was purely materialistic, nationalistic and militaristic and imperialistic. That beauty was but superficial. The bearuty of the Korean characters, or Esperanto, or what you are trying to do is found not only in their esthetic appeal, but in their moral appeal. That is wha I meant before when I said that a common Asian culture would need not only a common language but a common 'religion' too. That religion need not be a particular religion, but a sense of the spiritual, a belief in universal justice and brotherhood, which would lay the foundations of this common culture, unlike the current international culture of English as an international language, based mainly on pure materialism and individual profit.

This being the case, the primary objective of any universal auxiliary language must be that it be easily learnable by any of our fellow men, bay any of our brethren under heaven, walking this earth.
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Post time 2009-1-18 01:00:54 |Display all floors
Originally posted by joeching at 2009-1-17 06:26

i m promoting they should be two distinct set.  the culture being the main one.  the technical, an appended subset.

one small point i didnt mention might be because the modern humans would consider it too big a point to swallow:  

NOT EVERYONE NEED TO BE THAT EDUCATED.

and this should not be a reason that we should jeopardize those who want to be educated to the highest possible level achievable by man and most of us should want to see such people's effort to inspire us all.  in short am 100% anti-democracy.  i m a believe in that nature's way or dao is the meritocracy -- let each fit into his proper slot.

beside the above theoretical bs, the cultural language, anchored by the traditional chinese characters, and the tech language, on my computers, are all there.  i just happened to come out of my hermitage and say a few words or two.  


I was wrong to use the word 'democratic', since I realise it can mean so many different things to different people depending on culture. I do believe that every person ought to get the highest education he can get (essentially I beleive in free education for all). But I also beleive that man has become so advanced, with so much to learn, that it's not possible for everyone to learn everything. We need to specialize more in order to handle all this information. This means that, for example, language experts aside, the general populaiton could simply learn an easy common second language that all could use. This is not to promote laziness, but efficiency. This way, people could spend less time learning their second language, and more time learning their specialization, to learn their selected trade or profession for the absolute best of their ability. How can they do that if they  must be bogged down with say English for so many years of their lives when English is not even their specialization? This just promotes waste and inefficiency, especially when most fail to learn it anyway. There is no culture in a language one learns just for tests or money. It must be learnt for justice and fraternity.
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