Author: satsu_jin

A vanishing Europe and lifestyle [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2008-6-21 06:11:47 |Display all floors
Countries don't vanish, they change

Sure, some things will have to change in Europe.

We've created a lifestyle of minimal work for maximum leisure, long vacations and early retirement, generous support for the unemployed etc. This lifestyle is unsustainable. Especially European workers without a higher education will have to accept less luxury, otherwise they become too expensive.

Some non-economic aspects of European lifestyle: secular society (religion and state are separated), toleration of 'non-standard' behaviour (like married gay ppl), freedom of speech. These things may also come under threat if new immigrants don't support these values, but they will be defended vigourously.

Look at the Danish Mohammed cartoons (negative depiction of Mohammed, caused a lot of anger in the Arab world and among Arab immigrants in Europe). Several countries boycotted Denmark for it, but the only result was that other newspapers throughout Europe decided to publish the same cartoon to protest the boycot. If the attacks on our lifestyle become stronger, Europe will unite more strongly to defend them.

Europe needs immigrants, it's true.

But we need to search for the right immigrants. In the past we accepted workers without an education, without any attachment to the country. Nowadays European countries are more selective.
Actually Chinese immigrants have always been a source of strength for Europe. They work hard, educate their children well and stick to the law. That's the kind of people we need.
:: I'm in Hangzhou, Zhejiang Province, in July 2008 ::

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Post time 2008-6-22 01:27:46 |Display all floors

You know the song sang by Mick Jagger ...

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Post time 2008-6-22 06:34:16 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2008-6-22 01:06
The greatest achievement for Europe, however is:Half a century without armed conflicts!


Which planet have been living on?

Have you heard of Iraq and Afghanistan?

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Post time 2008-6-22 08:54:23 |Display all floors

Armed conflicts in Europe aplenty last 50 years...

Bosnia, Sarajevo, ethnic-cleansing etc and that's not counting "the Troubles" in Ireland. I think if Lord Mountbattan hadn't been blown away by Irish freedom fighters, he would want to disagree with seneca too.

However seneca is never one to let facts get in his way.

Not that we Chinese should adopt a schadenfreude attitude towards the armed conflicts in Europe as seneca does the setbacks we have had.

Anyway, this thread is about Europe's vanishing life-style, I urge other forum members to ignore "seneca" and "interesting", they hijack threads and turn them into hate-fest with their bitter and twisted comments.

[ Last edited by cestmoi at 2008-6-22 09:09 AM ]
Let the dice fly high

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Post time 2008-6-23 09:17:38 |Display all floors

Fortress Europa?

Good morning, China!

Last Wednesday, the EU Parliament agreed on a uniform guideline for deporting refugees: foreigners found without valid visa can be detained for 18 months and not be allowed to re-enter the EU for 5 years.

Europe has been for a long time the primary immigration destination. According to the European Police, Europol, half a million people enter Europe illegally every year. In Munich alone, around 40,000 to 50,000 do not have valid permits (but) all these people need work and medical care.

Their children go to school and have friends (but) they spend a lot of effort to remain invisible. Polle Wlbert, author and dramaturg, suggested that they (the illegal migrants and refugees) could be messengers of a future which challenges our (current) reality based on borders and nationality.

Migration und Europa
Da kann ja jeder kommen

Dank Migranten eine neue Form sozialen Selbstverständnisses: Erneuern illegalisierte Einwanderer die europäische Idee?
Von Alex Rühle

Am vergangenen Mittwoch hat sich das EU-Parlament auf eine einheitliche Richtlinie zur Abschiebung von Flüchtlingen geeinigt. Nach den neuen Regeln können Ausländer ohne gültige Aufenthaltserlaubnis künftig EU-weit für 18 Monate in Abschiebehaft genommen werden. Die "Rückführungsrichtlinie" sieht zudem vor, Abgeschobenen die Wiedereinreise nach Europa fünf Jahre lang zu verweigern. 18 Monate Haft! Nur dafür, dass man irgendwo sein Glück versucht hat.

Europa ist längst der Einwanderungskontinent Nummer eins; nach Schätzungen der Polizeibehörde Europol reisen jährlich rund 500.0000 Menschen illegal in die Europäische Union ein. Allein in München leben 40.000 bis 50.000 Menschen ohne staatliche Erlaubnis. All diese Menschen wohnen irgendwo, brauchen Arbeit und ärztliche Versorgung.

Ihre Kinder gehen in die Schule, haben Freunde. Sie wenden viel Kraft und Geschick dafür auf, nicht gesehen zu werden. Vielleicht aber, so der Münchner Dramaturg und Autor Polle Wilbert, "sind sie ja Boten einer Zukunft, die unsere Realität aus Grenzen und Nationalstaatlichkeit in Frage stellt".
...
Web Link
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt3l1/ausland/artikel/135/181574/


I think Europe has a lot of problems, one of which is religious tolerance. "Islamisation" seems to be one feared by Christian Europe, particularly amongst Catholics.

Take for instance the ongoing armed conflict in Bosnia and Sarajevo: the internecine attacks are perpetrated either by Islamic militants against Catholics or vice versa and of course, EUFOR / SFOR in the middle. But then again, the Catholics and Protestants have been at each other's throat too, it is not as if the Christians are living harmoniously with one another.

Under the circumstances, I see Turkey's chance of becoming a fully fledged EU member as slim, albeit it being a moderate Islamic state with secular rule and pro-west leaning, a truly far-sighted legacy from Ataturk.

The author of the quoted article mentions in passing a new form of "sozialen Selbstverständnisses" which I understand to be a new form of "social contract". This is much harder since the current social contract, such as it is, is based on 3 legacies and practices one of which dates back to ancient Rome.

Europe, bloody Europe.
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Post time 2008-6-23 18:24:19 |Display all floors
Originally posted by cestmoi at 2008-6-23 11:17
Europe, bloody Europe. ...


Oh, so you got a bit of stick from European immigration too !
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2008-6-23 19:17:14 |Display all floors
the white is the most successful race in the past 200 years.  foe example , 200 years ago, the half of the world  population were chinese. and it's only  1/5 these days.  so what do you warry about?

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