Author: laoxianggg

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Post time 2008-5-15 22:54:24 |Display all floors
God blesses them

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Post time 2008-5-16 11:34:30 |Display all floors
Originally posted by jl2315 at 2008-5-15 22:45
还是西方媒体(纽约时报)造谣污蔑?



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Several facts told me that the local officials never tell the truth when a disaster hits their places. In 2002 or 2003, an unexpected flood happened in my hometown, which was the largest in 60 years. Many residents were drowned or washed away, but the local government only reported that the death toll was only 2. Nearlly every local resident there knew that the number reported was far, far, far from the actual one. After the flood, many farmers ploughed their lands at the banks of the inland river there, and they were very surprised that there were so many corpses under the earth....

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Post time 2008-5-16 13:38:41 |Display all floors
Well, my impression has been, although in the past, official estimates for death tolls in natural disasters have been much lower than actual, in this case the domestic media have been reporting more accurate figures.

From one CNN article:
Wenran Jiang, acting director of the Chinese Institute at the University of Alberta, believes the nation has drawn lessons from its past experiences with disaster. "China made mistakes before. They seemed to have learned their lessons from the earlier episodes and this one -- they probably want to manage it as well as they can."

Why China's new approach? Jiang notes that "the media follow-up is quite transparent," in part because it "is politically less sensitive covering such a natural disaster." Besides, Chinese officials see tangible benefits in allowing media transparency. By showing the leaders helping people and coordinating search and rescue efforts, he explains, "the result is that the whole [of] China is being mobilized. The disaster has now become a rallying point of the country."


This, from an AP article:
"The old traditions in reporting bad news were to cover up and to block, but it's very different now," said Shao Peiren, a mass media professor at Zhejiang University in Hangzhou. "It shows the Chinese government is more confident than ever. It has realized that by sharing the news candidly, it can win the support of the public and the understanding of its people."
I'm not sure I agree with some of the analysis here—I think the benefits are greater and the downside nonexistent, really—but there it is.

Implicitly, of course, the response to this tragedy stands in stark contrast to the dismal response of the US government to the hurricane disaster of Katrina.
中文我不会读也不会写。Really, I don't.

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rovi297 has been deleted
Post time 2008-5-16 20:29:29 |Display all floors

JL, please read it carefully...

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Post time 2008-5-16 23:03:07 |Display all floors
别管教育部了,管自己吧

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Medal of honor

Post time 2008-5-17 05:21:26 |Display all floors

法律规定形同虚设

Originally posted by rovi297 at 2008-5-16 08:29 AM

JL, please read it carefully...

As I said,
...... except perhaps for the longer term lack of action in the area of building code enforcement.

法规都在那里,从上到下,有谁认真执行?到发生了事情,才说什么“我们已要求当地建设主管部门配合有关部门开展调查”,且不说偷工减料从表面看不到,建筑物有多少层,明摆在那里,也一直不予追究,该负责任的到底是谁?

但这肯定不是四川一地特有的情况,恐怕全国各地、在各种领域,都有类似的情况吧。如果把矛头只对着四川的地方官,难道公平吗?


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Post time 2008-5-17 05:24:50 |Display all floors

【转自某网站】国内建筑的抗震

我学的是工民建,从事工程造价有十几年,为了掌握第一手资料,
公司开的项目,我工作时间基本上驻扎在工地,对国内建筑的抗震情况还是
比较了解的。
其实从90年代起,正规设计院出的图纸,抗震要求大多要达到抗震等级七级,
抗震要求在建筑上主要体现在钢筋节点的不同。
比如说箍筋的弯钩,抗震的要比不抗震的长得多。

钢筋在整个造价中占的比例很大,单价高数量多,又是隐蔽工程,混凝土一
浇,什么都看不到了,所以是最能偷工减料的。

国内的建筑业管理非常混乱,有空我可以另外写帖子说说。

一个项目,有三方人员。
甲方:项目的投资方。
乙方:建筑公司,项目的承建方。
中介:监理公司,负责对项目在安全,质量,进度方面监控。

在这三方中,技术力量最强的是乙方,我以前在建筑公司干过7年。
如果乙方的技术力量不行,早就被市场淘汰了。

甲方只是出资方,在国外,出资方是不需要懂技术的,因为有很成熟的监理制度。

但是国内的情况,监理制度在九十年代中期才开始建立起来,而且监理的收费很
低,我有一些同学在开监理公司,员工的工资很低,只有一千多,这样的工资能
找到什么样的技术员呢?有的是建筑公司的退休人员,老得都爬不动楼了,我还听
过这样的笑话,说是我们以前建筑公司的门卫都在做监理了。

很多项目的验收都是走走过场,乙方把搞关系当作最重要的工作。

建一所学校,学校方作为甲方是不可能有什么工程技术人员的。

就是现在技术力量最好的甲方,比如房产公司吧,我们明知有问题也无可奈何。

因为一个项目,靠大量的贷款,房产公司务必要缩短工期,有的工期,甚至要缩短
到国家工期的一半。

这是一个很普遍的现象,图纸还没有完全设计好,只要基础图出来就挖土施工了。
我一直就纳闷,上部的图还没有出来,怎么算自重和承重,这基础图是怎么出来的?

每一层楼,先绑扎钢筋,再支模和浇混凝土。但是工期卡得这么紧,哪里有时间给
监理仔细地验收钢筋?
而且监理的技术水平呢?不是我看不起人,接触过那么多监理人员,少说有上百个吧,
没有一个能把图集中的钢筋节点构造背得清清楚楚的。

很多次,我和工程部管施工的同事站在绑扎好的钢筋前面,我拿出钢尺量给他们看:
“图纸上,或者规范中要求的搭接,或弯钩要多少多少,他们要结算这么多,但实际上呢?”

他们说,要每根钢筋都这么量过来,怎么可能完成工期?没有一幢楼能盖得起来。
大概差不多就行了吧,好在设计通常比教保守,只要不发生大的地震,就不会出事。

只要不发生大的地震,就不会出事,这句话犹言在耳啊。

这么多抗震的图纸,但是造起来的房子,有多少抗震能力呢?
只有天晓得了,只能寄希望于设计保守吧。

顺便说说,政府楼不倒,不见得政府楼的质量有多好。

而是,学校,医院的结构跨度通常要比办公楼大得多,同样是没达到抗震要求,那肯定是
跨度大的建筑先垮掉。

还有,如果是90年代以前的房子,一般是没有抗震要求的。
如果是90年代以后的房子,可以去查查抗震设计。如果抗震设计七级,那么这次地震,不应
该这么整体的垮掉。我是搞造价的,这方面的要求搞设计的比较清楚吧。


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