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Originally posted by kodama at 2008-6-9 03:52
It's not really a matter of need, it rarely is. All empire-building stems from a desire for security. Russia's economic security requires Europe to continue consuming its energy, which means they can't be getting energy from other nations.
No. BTW, only 40% of gas and only 25% of oil (including oil products) Europe gets from Russia.
And we do not trying to increase this market share.
Europe needs energy, so they needs us, not otherwise.
We will sell our energy to China, meeting their demands. We don't need to make China somehow "dependent", energy needs everywhere, if China will refuse, we can find other customers.
That either means those nations which would supply them energy have to somehow be made to work with Russia or Russia has to dominate that nation's energy or control the routes needed to supply that energy.
Yes, sure. If i have something you need and nobody else have it, i'll be dominating on your market.
First of all you're saying "Russia becomes more confrontational" assuming this is the same for China and US are same country.
You'd see I was specifically referring to the U.S. if you looked harder. My point was that Americans fears will shift away from China. Also consider what happens when problems with North Korea and problems over Taiwan are resolved. The U.S. won't have much reason to keep its forces in the area and with problem popping up elsewhere in the world it's likely we'll move out of East Asia, thus removing another problem between the U.S. and China.
US will never live peacefully with nation that stronger than US.
It's an Empire and Great Empire always needs Great Enemy. :)
US have "national interests" :) everywhere in world, and when those interests will conflict with Chinese ones, US will recognize it as enemy. It's only way how it can be. America's imperialism can't have something that not under American control, this is essential for very existence of US. Look to Cuba, Belarus or even Kirghizia... they need put their hands everywhere.
Only reason why you peaceful toward China: China is major supplier of cheap products to your market and US controls big part of production there.
And... can you tell what kind of neo-colonialism is here?
Typically when we talk neo-colonialism it refers to the dominance of certain corporations. Certainly Gazprom taking over Serbia's state-run energy company has some element of that neo-colonialism.
So US is a kind of hyper neo-colonialist? :) Anyway, americans has own more factories in China, than Russia will ever will, isn't it? :)
And in Serbia: no, it's not neo-colonialism. It's only way for Serbia get guarantied energy supply. If somebody owns a company, he's interested that company runs smoothly. Gazprom is only option in this region.
This is just perfect sample of american's lie.
How is it a lie?
Direct and obvious.
Russian officials have threatened Georgia and Ukraine over the possibility of NATO membership.
With Georgia specifically they've threatened to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia and the comments from those regions and Russia strongly suggest or even outright state the end result will be their incorporation into Russia.
Please stop lying. Show me ANY words of Russian official, who ever claims Russia will incorporate Abkhazia. ANY.
Please use credible source (not western media).
...once i was shocked, when saw on US media something like "utin says he will target missiles to Ukraine". I find a source of those words... and i know what exactly Putin says. He says "it's something to hard imagine Ukraina and Russia target each other with missiles!"
In westerns media they put it upside down. It's not "lost in translation", it's just direct lie. Lie everywhere about Russia.
[quote]Man... can you just look to the world map? Do you know where Abkhazia is situated?
Then tell me, what "limiting routing options" for Europe can be related to Abkhazia?
Abkhazia is most of Georgia's Black Sea coast. Granted, Georgia isn't really using it, but annexing Abkhazia would allow Russia to permanently deny that coastal area to Georgia.
Wait... I ask you an understandable (i think it is) question: what "limiting routing options" for Europe can be related to Abkhazia?
It has borders with Russia and Georgia only and isolated by mountains. Main Georgian traffic goes though Batumi port, and it can't be isolated even if somebody want to; oil pipes and all Georgian industrial are there.
So, once again: what "limiting routing options" for Europe can be related to Abkhazia?
Can you answer it? Or just say: yes, i was lying here?
By taking Ukraine's black sea coast
How it can be possible - to "take Ukraine's black sea coast" without war? Even Krimea isn't all Ukraine's Black Sea coastline.
Do you thinking on what you saying at all?
Do your words and "geopolitical constructions" :) somehow depends on reality? At all?
Did you in your life ever saw a map?
It's still here:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q& ... F8&ll=44.995883,35.551758&spn=11.325659,25.180664&z=6
would also eliminate one key destination for such supplies and provide Russia a very nice little route of their own leading directly to Southeastern Europe completely under their control.
No, it's not.
I'm not sure what your point is. Does that somehow make it OK to carve them up?
I think, it's a bad thing - to provoke revolutions in other countries, to setup there governments that makes bad thing both for nation and it's relations.
I wasn't suggesting something so bold. Russia has very strong ties with India and former Soviet states in Central Asia. They're expanding their ties throughout the region. I don't think China would take kindly to Russia trying to boss them around while at the same time expanding its footprint in China's neighbors, including some with a history of hostility towards China.
I think it can be discussed with Cine and without US help. :)
And anyway, it's not like Taiwan, isn't it? :)