Author: zglobal

"Imaginary" Democracy Beware [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2007-3-20 18:37:28 |Display all floors
First of all, I'm Irish, as my handle indicates.

Second of all, I never claimed that the US was a direct democracy.

Third, why should the US's shortcomings prevent China from becoming more democratic? Perhaps China could adopt your  direct democracy suggestion, leading the way and governing solely through referenda. Then China would be the world's greatest democracy.

[ Last edited by irishinuk at 2007-3-20 06:38 PM ]

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Post time 2007-3-20 18:56:42 |Display all floors
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Post time 2007-3-20 18:57:21 |Display all floors
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Post time 2007-3-20 19:08:23 |Display all floors
Originally posted by zglobal at 2007-3-20 18:57
and another thing....

I have heard so much crap from foreigners on this forum who know sh&t about China.
Self serving higher than thou attitudes. They have no f&cking idea and I'm sick  ...


I take my hat off to you, man!

Its like banging your head against a brick wall with these guys!

They just end up bringing the worst out of me.

I am glad that you manage to keep civil and not stoop so low as me in trading insults with them! I must admit I have lost my patience with them and am quite dismissive and rude to them.

They don't give us any credit whatsoever for the changes we are making. They think that they know what is best for us from their armchairs.

In fact we are looking at much better ways than they can come up with.

One of the things we are looking at: Chinese harmony renaissance.

Chinese harmony renaissance: Can world ignore it?
by Francis C.W. Fung, Ph.D.

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[ Last edited by changabula at 2007-3-20 07:12 PM ]
I am Chinese and Proud of it!

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Post time 2007-3-20 19:12:55 |Display all floors
Since the CCP is making such great progress, it should have no trouble at all defeating any proposal to create a multi-party system by referendum. Picture the headline:


Wouldn't the Party love headlines like that? And since they are oh-so popular among Chinese, what is there to lose in putting it to a referendum? It would sure shut people like me up, right?

The Party would be able to laugh in the face of FLG, me, China-bashing conservatives, the KMT, Chen Shui-bian... everybody. It would be the Party's finest hour.

So tell me, why do you think the Party will never do it, despite the new credibility, status, and sheer f*ck-you power it would give the Party? They are oh-so obviously the best people to run China, right? 中國人民忠黨愛國, 是不是? No way would the people of China vote away the obviously superior one-party system, now would they? The Party would surely prove all the NGOs, China-haters, European racists, etc. wrong by getting more or less all of the vote, would they, or wouldn't they? Since the Party is so confident of their popularity, why don't they put it to the test?

Maybe you can answer that question yourself.

[ Last edited by irishinuk at 2007-3-20 07:19 PM ]

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Post time 2007-3-20 19:15:07 |Display all floors
Originally posted by zglobal at 2007-3-20 00:17
This thread is just for you EC

Why thankyou very much.

I am right behind our Irish friend on this one.

He has clearly proven Reyquer's ignorant claim (that one cannot protest outside the White House) wrong.
He has shown that people are free in Western democracies to protest peacefully, even against their own governments.
It is clear that Chinese citizens do not enjoy the same rights.
You, zglobal, claim that true democracy involves frequent referenda on issues of concern.
It would be impractical to have a referendum every week on petty issues and when we elect a political party to government, most of the major issues have already been outlined in the election campaign.However some countries, like Switzerland, do have popular referenda to decide citizen initiated issues, and major issues have been decided in Australia through referenda.

The excuse we always hear is that the Chinese people are "not ready" for democracy.
This is effectively claiming that they cannot make a sensible decision. Yet they already have some sort of "vote" (albeit limited by the CCP's virtual monopoly on power), and there are Chinese people in HK who are clamouring for a vote, and Chinese people in Taiwan who already have a vote.
There were also many millions who showed they wanted a vote in 1989, but that didn't get them very far.

It looks like Irishinuk and me and some others here have more faith in the good sense of the good people of China, than you and the other CCP apologists have.

"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2007-3-20 19:25:57 |Display all floors
The "China is not ready" argument is much like that used by the old Rhodesian and South African governments as a justification for not giving the blacks the vote. If you believe that was wrong, then surely the CCP depriving the Chinese people of a say in their destiny is wrong too.

Unless of course you agree with the arguments used by DF Malan and Ian Smith in denying blacks the right to vote *and* agree with the CCP's decision to defer democracy, in which case you are indirectly considering both Chinese and black Africans to be less culturally developed than other people.

You also have the third position: that Afrikaner supremacy in South Africa was wrong and that blacks are just as capable as whites of voting responsibly, but that Chinese are less developed than black Africans and cannot be trusted with the vote. This, ironically enough, seems to be the position of many of the Fenqing on this board.

[ Last edited by irishinuk at 2007-3-20 07:51 PM ]

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