Author: zglobal

"Imaginary" Democracy Beware [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2007-3-22 12:27:16 |Display all floors
"You, who only know well how succesful western style democracy continuously denying the fact that the developed-west need hundreds of years social transformation to reach present stage."

Can you explain what exactly is lacking from Chinese society which would prevent democracy from being a success at this current stage? RoC has become a successful republic after less than two decades, what social transformation has taken place there that has not taken place on the mainland?

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Post time 2007-3-22 12:43:07 |Display all floors

The Dream World of Irishinuk

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Post time 2007-3-22 12:47:17 |Display all floors
Originally posted by northwest at 2007-3-22 14:19
Personally I prefer 'democratic centralism', the closest form of this is Vietnam, but still not similar. Whether other scholar agree or not, I don't know. But one thing for sure, I won't choose western style demobcrazy.  ...

Northwest, good to hear you are evaluating the various systems on offer.

I do not believe China needs to adopt a foreign political model, like the USA or Sweden or whatever. Obviously there are lessons to be learnt from other countries experiences. Personally I think there are shortcomings in the American model, and how the French republic are governed. It is widely said that the Republic of Ireland has a successful republican system of government. On the other hand the better rated countries on the human development index are generally constitutional monarchies, which include western European democracies as well as countries like Canada and Australia. I don't, however, expect China to return to a monarchial system.
I would hope that China can develop its own home-grown system which is original and tailored to China's particular circumstances. Hopefully this model would be one which sets a good example for the rest of the world. There is no reason why China can't do that.
However whatever democratic model China adopts, there are a few basic points which are universal and not particularly "western" concepts, but are essential to make a democracy function.

Some of these include:
Independent judiciary/Separation of powers:
So that the legal system is not the plaything of the politicians.
This means that ordinary citizens have rights and political figures are not above the law.
We read in CD that the wise leadership of China is trying to tackle corruption. An independent judiciary would be a help to them.

Scrutiny of Politicians personal interests:
One of the things which comes up in reports on corruption & workplace safety (coal mines) is corrupt local officials being owners of mine interests as well as "regulators" of the industry.
An independent judiciary and a register of politicians financial interests would help oversight of this area.

Personal Rights:
The Constitution of the PRC mentions the rights of individuals.
There are sometimes reports that these promises are not always honoured. This comes back to an independent judiciary.

Electoral & Parliamentary Reform:
Testing the local support of representatives to the national parliament is important. If the people are not represented by someone they can trust and support, how do they know their own interests will be properly represented?

All these things can be implemented in a uniquely Chinese way. No need to copy anyone else.
It all comes down to the ordinary man on the street and how he wants to be treated.
Does he want a say in how his taxes are spent?
Does he want a job?
Does he deserve to be treated with common courtesy and dignity regardless of whether he is a street sweeper, a farmer or a policeman?

JB
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2007-3-22 12:48:07 |Display all floors
Zglobal, you specifically cited Russian "shock treatment" as evidence as to why democracy would fail in China.

Unfettered capitalism is not an inevitable consequence of democraticisation and you know it.

Edit: I was not suggesting that China must become like Sweden. I was presenting Sweden as an example of a state which is very democratic but which does not posess a neo-liberal style market economy. Since the Swedish people are in favour of social democracy and not capitalism, they vote for the the party which advocates such a system. It's democracy, isn't it!

[ Last edited by irishinuk at 2007-3-22 12:53 PM ]

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Post time 2007-3-22 16:08:38 |Display all floors
Originally posted by irishinuk at 2007-3-22 12:27
Can you explain what exactly is lacking from Chinese society which would prevent democracy from being a success at this current stage? RoC has become a successful republic after less than two decades, what social transformation has taken place there that has not taken place on the mainland?  ...


Which of the sucessful western democracies can make it before economically better off? Sweden? This is a poor nation when they started western style democratic procedures?

Zglobal said it right, how many Taiwan population? How much GDP per capita when they really turn into western style election? 20 years is enough for about 20 million tiny population to be led by Chiang Ching Guo to reach mid-level stage.
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Post time 2007-3-22 16:12:35 |Display all floors
Originally posted by emucentral at 2007-3-22 12:47
Northwest, good to hear you are evaluating the various systems on offer.
I do not believe China needs to adopt a foreign political model, like the USA or Sweden or whatever. Obviously there ar ...


There's thousands China's best minds working for this, I don't have to be worried about their ability.

Just if CIA stopped their role in supporting Tibetan separatism, US support of provocation across Taiwan strait, Japan stop provocative move with Australia etc etc, China could have stable environment to exercise many reforms. But at present stage, economic is the most important.
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Post time 2007-3-22 16:14:06 |Display all floors
I see no reason why mainland China could not have become wealthy within 50 years under the correct leadership. Consider the contrast between the US in about 1899 and the us in 1949.

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