Author: changabula

What the British did to China   [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2007-4-7 00:05:03 |Display all floors
Originally posted by pjtran at 2007-4-6 23:29
zhongguo or china...

not only that & now we have to stick with the term china but not zhongguo/jhongguo & we are not chinese but zhongguo ren.  i would like us to use zhongguo & zhongguo ren but not the briton's slangs (china, chinese).  


This sort of thing can be a controversial issue. Some people believe that, say, the English words for China and Chinese, being different from the Chinese names for their own country and the people, is some sort of "insult" by the English speaking people and is somehow exclusively an "arrogant" English attitude.

Of course this is not the case at all.
The French use the names "Royaume Uni" for United Kingdom and "Londres" for London. Various European languages have names for other parts of Europe which differ from how the natives refer to their towns and cities.
So too with China. I have seen Tibet referred to as "Xinyang" (?), however the Tibetans call it "Po", and I wonder how many non-Chinese places or countries are pronounced properly by Mandarin speakers, considering the limitations imposed by the available syllables? We even see parts of China given names in Putonghua which may differ from the names used by the regional dialect. Japanese use "Osutoraria" for Australia, because they too need the consonant/vowell syllable pairings and there is little or no distinction between "L" and "R" sounds. I am not offended by that and in fact I have learned to say it so that I can pronounce it in a way a Japanese person can understand where I am from.

Often these names may have some ancient or long forgotten historical reason.

http://www.answers.com/topic/cathay
CATHAY
Former name for China, especially northern China. The word is derived from Khitay, the name of a seminomadic people who dominated northern China in the 10th – 12th century. By the time of Genghis Khan, the Mongols had begun referring to northern China as Kitai (still the Russian word for China). The name may have been introduced to Europe by returning Franciscan friars c. 1254, but it was Marco Polo's Travels 50 years later that put Cathay's image before the European public.


The Romans used the name of a local tribe to refer to "Caledonia", now known as Scotland.
So this practice is not simply English "ignorance" as some may maintain.

China is no better and no worse than any other country in this regard, and while personally I believe we should all do our best to pronounce the names of places and countries as closely as possible to how the natives of those countries say it, it is sometimes very difficult or impossible due to the nature of our various languages and the typical sounds available and familiar to us.

JB
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 1

Post time 2007-4-7 20:07:47 |Display all floors
Originally posted by pjtran at 2007-4-6 21:29
not only that & now we have to stick with the term china but not zhongguo/jhongguo & we are not chinese but zhongguo ren.  i would like us to use zhongguo & zhongguo ren but not the bri ...


Too bad. Why are we using English now ? Why is everyone learning English ? That's the same reason . In English , this is China . In Chinese , this is zhongguo . So , if you don't want to stick with the term China, use zhongguo , when you are speaking in Chinese . When you are speaking in English , then I 'm sorry to say this, we are stuck with the term China.

We are using another language than Chinese , called English , so in English , zhongguo is China. Besides why don't you think about the English Letters in the word 'zhongguo' . That is the way . I'm sorry , but English is the international language , like it or not.

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2007-4-8 06:20:34 |Display all floors

you thought you know but you don't...

china is not a proper way of transtating from zhongguo; china is a slang or should i say a "put down"...as emucentral has mentioned, an insult to all chinese.  we need a proper interpretation rather than the brits made it up.  china is no different than the word nigger (oriental or asian?).  and i have no idea where you're coming at me.  think about it (listen to emucentral a little)!  PS!  i don't mind using english but not in a way that maliciously harm me.

[ Last edited by pjtran at 2007-4-7 05:35 PM ]

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2007-4-8 08:01:54 |Display all floors
Colonialism works so long as...

Colonialism works so long as the interests of those colonized agree with those who are colonizing.  When the interests of those colonized conflict with the colonizers, then the colonial power must rely on corruption to acheive their goals.  So when a local leader or a group of local leaders are faced with the choice of doing what is best for their country or what is best for their colonial guests, then the colonial power must corrupt the locals to survive and prosper.


Colonialism is not all that bad as it cracks up to be, when the colonized subjects could get peace, prosperity and bargaining power out of the arrangement.  Depends on the specific nationalities of colonizers really.



Many people believe that colonial powers like Britain, Portugal, The Netherlands, Italy, France, America, Germany, and Japan have helped the people that they colonize.  Hong Kong is undisputedly a beautiful cityscape.  But there are many negative things associated with colonialism, including the enslavement of millions of Africans who were carried against their will to North America and Brazil, and the enslavement of millions of Chinese through addiction to opium.

The world of just 100 years ago was a truly horrible place.  The world 200 years ago was an unimaginably bad place.  Diseases like polio and smallpox were so devastating that they made the cruelties of what the humans did to each other less bad by comparison, but they were still pretty bad.

Hong Kong does have a beautiful skyline.  Maybe it is one of hope too.
龙年顺顺利利

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 4

Post time 2007-4-8 14:13:16 |Display all floors
The other thing is that people have been colonising other places since the dawn of time - the Aztecs ran a pretty brutal operation through the americas, for instance.  The mughals pillaged much of india in a way that the british wouldn't have dreamed of doing.  And so on.  But only white northern europeans are blamed for these things.  Why is this?

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2007-4-8 16:30:18 |Display all floors
Originally posted by renegadedog9 at 2007-4-8 16:13
The other thing is that people have been colonising other places since the dawn of time - ....  But only white northern europeans are blamed for these things.  Why is this? ...


Maybe because the White northern Europeans largely voluntarily gave their colonies independence and acknowledged their colonial history whereas some other colonising powers deny their colonial history and claim "such and such" was always a part of the larger "empire".

Blaming whitey is always a good distraction from their own problems too!!
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2007-4-10 13:32:52 |Display all floors

Acknowledged their colonial history ?

Originally posted by emucentral at 2007-4-8 16:30


Maybe because the White northern Europeans ................ and acknowledged their colonial history   ...


Oh really?!! You mean the history of extermination of  90% aboringinal people and murdering many Chinese miners in Australia, wickedly forcing illegal opium trade upon China all due to GREED  not 'free trade', extorting huge crippling sum of war indemnity from China and committing  more racist crimes in India, Africa and the Americas?

Where's the APOLOGY!???
Where's the COMPENSATION!???

[ Last edited by correction at 2007-4-10 01:34 PM ]

Use magic tools Report

You can't reply post until you log in Log in | register

BACK TO THE TOP
Contact us:Tel: (86)010-84883548, Email: blog@chinadaily.com.cn
Blog announcement:| We reserve the right, and you authorize us, to use content, including words, photos and videos, which you provide to our blog
platform, for non-profit purposes on China Daily media, comprising newspaper, website, iPad and other social media accounts.