Author: eye2eye

aftermath of going abroad [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2006-7-8 09:30:37 |Display all floors
Although the imperfections you so eloquently listed above are real and a continuous problem, democracy is still superior and the preferred system over any authoritarian regime. Why? Because all the points you list are even more dire in authoritarian regimes than in democratic. Such as:

14. "Free speech is illusory." No, it isn't; tell me what I can't say, and I will say it on a public platform (outside China). Free spech doesn't mean that you are entitled to use others' channels to exercise that speech, just that you can create your own channel (newspaper, radio station, blog, whatever). You don't have this freedom in China, you do have it in the West.

We can go on with the other points you mentioned, but I would like to make sure we have an agreement on this single point before carrying on. I am ready to prove it to you, if you accept the challenge.
瑞典人,活着为中国娃娃而死。汉学家、工程师、摄影师、网页设计师等等。爱好:政治、历史、科技、文化等。王菲迷。自由主义者。

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Post time 2006-7-8 09:47:58 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tongluren at 2006-7-8 10:03
Democracy is not an achievement or goal by itself.  It is just a procedure for choosing leaders.  All governments are still ran by elites. ...


I was answering Eye2Eye's challenge. To name developing countries with improved democracies compared to China.


As to your multiple points.

1 to 12
Get over it Tong, the USA is not the only bl00dy democracy in the world.
Stop selectively quoting the worst you can find in the USA, and applying that generically to all democratic nations. Many of us here think the USA is flawed, yet it is still far more democratic than China.

13, the growing wealth gap in China is far worse than the USA.

14, The mother of one US soldier killed in Iraq was free to protest outside GWB's ranch. She was joined by hundreds of protesters. There are many reports on US and international media about US protesters objecting to the policies of their government. The US news media does represent a variety of opinion, from the loonies of the Fox News Network, to the loonies of the far left indy media. No such broad opinions can be seen in China.
Now can you meet Liangzai's challenge to concede that point, or are you going to do the gutless thing and worm your way out of acknowledging the truth?

15, A hollow generalisation

Originally posted by tongluren at 2006-7-8 10:03
... when everybody knows that corruption in America probably is higher in number than that of the rest of the world added together.  

You don't sound sure of yourself there, Tongludicrous! Got any facts and figures to back that up?
Yep, we know corruption occurs in the USA, and every other country in the world. you gotta compare the systems in place to police it, and the independence of those doing the policing and in the judiciary.

Originally posted by tongluren at 2006-7-8 10:03
In China, corrupt officials are punished and their carriers are over.  In the "clean" Western countries, they move on to higher "achievements," competing to see who can get the most graft.

Silvio Berlusconi (former Italian President) might disagree with you there.

Western media is free to report on criminal allegations against officials and politicians, and they do.
Look at the new media reporting laws in China for "disasters", a further attempt to quash investigative journalism.

Now please address Liangzai's challenge, if you have the guts to do so.


JB
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2006-7-11 15:45:03 |Display all floors
Originally posted by liangzai at 2006-6-26 13:02
.................
We know that they ran a government of tyranny on Taiwan for many years, in fact just like China in miniature.
...

tyranny
are you saying China is also a t-----y government

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Post time 2006-7-11 17:38:08 |Display all floors
Originally posted by lap5900 at 2006-7-11 15:45

tyranny
are you saying China is also a t-----y government



Not really, I am saying that the previous tyranny in mainland China indeed had its counterpart also on Taiwan, where people were brutally murdered in the early years under Jiang Jieshi.
瑞典人,活着为中国娃娃而死。汉学家、工程师、摄影师、网页设计师等等。爱好:政治、历史、科技、文化等。王菲迷。自由主义者。

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Post time 2006-7-11 17:46:15 |Display all floors
not really?

if it's not, what qualifies for a tyranny?

my qualification for a tyranny is simple: a single party system governed by benevolent and repulsive idiots.
Opinions are determined by interests, but interests are a matter of opinion.
David Hume

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Post time 2006-7-11 18:39:26 |Display all floors
Originally posted by asmanthink at 2006-7-11 17:46
not really?

if it's not, what qualifies for a tyranny?

my qualification for a tyranny is simple: a single party system governed by benevolent and repulsive idiots.


But there are degrees in hell. There is tyranny in China of today, and in China's government, as well as in most countries of the world. But it can't be compared to the pure evil that existed before. Not at all.
瑞典人,活着为中国娃娃而死。汉学家、工程师、摄影师、网页设计师等等。爱好:政治、历史、科技、文化等。王菲迷。自由主义者。

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Post time 2006-7-12 03:00:58 |Display all floors

There are Much More Limits on the Chinese Leaders Than on the U.S. ones

A "tyranny", by dictionary definition, is a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator not restricted by a constitution or laws.

China has a consititution, and at least for the last 30 years no leader is above the law, in the sense that he is an absolute dictator.  As is shown by the case of Zhao, top leaders in China can be removed for nonperformance and/or malfeasance.

Dubya is a lot closer to that dictionary definition than any Chinese leader.  In America, no president can be removed during his term by nonperformance.  

So why are you jerks libelling the great leaders of China?

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