Author: catbird

Do you dare to believe western media's reports on China? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2006-3-16 00:37:43 |Display all floors

matt

In your last post you said that you were not aware of comments being deleted here in recent months, not that you didn't have any of yours deleted. I have set the record straight for you.

And to be honest I still don't know what will get deleted. If I did I would phrase my posts exactly so that they wouldn't be deleted. But as I said before we are never told where the lines are so the administration has a lot of control.
"People are the water, the ruler is the boat; water can carry the boat, but it can also capsize it."

-- Li Shimin (2nd Tang Emperor, "Taizong")

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Post time 2006-3-16 01:30:32 |Display all floors
I'm describing my experience, not yours.

It's true you have said several of your posts and threads were deleted and that posts and threads of others were deleted.  I've read where you've written that.

I haven't had posts or threads deleted in recent months, and I have not noticed posts or threads being deleted.  However, I don't dispute that the forum rules permit moderators to delete posts.

China isn't America when it comes to free speech.  Sometimes America isn't America either.  And that I know from my personal experience posting at the New York Times forum.  

The New York Times invited people to share what they thought happened in the sky on the weekend that the Space Shuttle disintegrated.  I said I thought it was shot down, and I said how it could have been done.  They deleted every comment that I had ever posted to their site and deleted my screen name too.  That's far more than China Daily has done to you, and China doesn't pretend to value free speech the same way that newspapers in America claim to value it.

龙年顺顺利利

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Post time 2006-3-16 04:27:32 |Display all floors

Hear Hear Matt.

There is a misplaced perception, or is it divine-right talking, that NO comments sent into a Chinese forum should be deleted, especially if they are from " learned China-bashers ". Or else it is the lecture time on " free speech and gagging ". Whenever there is a right , there is a RESPONSIBITY ; a responsibility to be civil and objective and to avoid personal abuses etc. They are all on the 'conditions ' of registration when you sign on ! Remember ? There are those forumites who are so self important they are livid when their less than enlightening remarks are deleted , for one reason or another. The heavens have fallen in; how dare these ignoramous moderators ! Grow up fellas. I am surprised that lots of the silly or juvenile utterences presently posted on these forum are even allowed to see the light of day. Some are unadulterated trash of pure crudity. I wish the moderators can at least keep the place " clean ".

I offer my gems of wisdom on English sites as well. Oftentimes these gems are refused! The gall of BBC for example. Do I get up on my soap box and rant ? No. They are the ones who miss out, not me. There are lots more gems where they come from ! haha.

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Post time 2006-3-16 04:58:24 |Display all floors

Practice what you preach

Originally posted by mengzhi at 15-3-2006 20:27
Whenever there is a right , there is a RESPONSIBITY ; a responsibility to be civil and objective and to avoid personal abuses etc.


Meng, if you can quote my deleted posts where I have been abusive, please do so. One's responsibility as you mention rarely comes into the matter - the barely regulated behaviour of flotsam is a prime example of this. Unless of course you're saying that it's ok to be rude about countries other than China and non-Chinese people. Your comment is also ironic given that In post #13 you used the phrase "the old whitey". I also note that Chinadaily did not edit that comment out, let alone delete the post.

What were you saying about "a responsibility to be civil"?

As I have said to matt, the items in question are deleted because they are "embarrassing" for the establishment, nothing more.

Oftentimes these gems are refused! The gall of BBC for example.


That is such a stupid example given that the BBC selects posts to publish. I don't complain that more of my threads aren't flagged up by Chinadaily.

[ Last edited by mencius at 2006-3-15 09:07 PM ]
"People are the water, the ruler is the boat; water can carry the boat, but it can also capsize it."

-- Li Shimin (2nd Tang Emperor, "Taizong")

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Post time 2006-3-16 05:03:15 |Display all floors
I think you guys need to realize that

1) Free speech is a right in certain countries as a general rule, with exceptions in all instances; there is a limit to free speech in every country (hate speech, inciting rebellion or violence, and child porn are three common examples in most of the West).

2) Free speech doesn't make you entitled to state your mind freely in any medium (you can't for example demand to have your wisdoms printed in a newspaper), but only at those venues you control or own yourself.

3) Free speech in a BBS, a forum or another venue for discussion is entirely at the mercy of those who are in charge of these venues; this includes the BBS of China Daily, whose moderators can arbitrarily delete or edit content; it is their right, and it has nothing to do with free speech in general.

4) What you can't say on China Daily, you may (or may not) say in another forum, or on your own site or blog; if you were to put up a web site in China, there is a list of items that limit your freedom of speech; this list is shorter than you think, and freedom of speech has expanded considerably in China lately, contrary to popular belief.
瑞典人,活着为中国娃娃而死。汉学家、工程师、摄影师、网页设计师等等。爱好:政治、历史、科技、文化等。王菲迷。自由主义者。

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Post time 2006-3-16 05:10:33 |Display all floors

liangzai

If the administrators of this forum publicly declared that this was a "controlled" BBS, then I would agree with what you have to say. But given that they say it is "open" and do not tell us what is forbidden, that is the main issue that I have. The same would apply if people like mengzhi admitted that people's comments are censored because their views are "incompatible" with those of the State, rather than because of the way that they are made.

[ Last edited by mencius at 2006-3-15 09:13 PM ]
"People are the water, the ruler is the boat; water can carry the boat, but it can also capsize it."

-- Li Shimin (2nd Tang Emperor, "Taizong")

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Post time 2006-3-16 06:36:57 |Display all floors
It is open in the sense that the public can contribute.

China Daily is a state-owned newspaper, operating under certain rules. They need to comply with these rules, otherwise no newspaper, no BBS.

It is generally known what you can or can't write (for instance, there is a new law that says that only the most important papers can name the big leaders; for all its stupidity, the rule still has to be followed), no need for an explicit list. Furthermore, such a list would be subject to interpretation, and there is only one arbiter here.

If you still need a list, look for 互联网信息服务管理办法 and 中华人民共和国信息产业部令第30号 on Google.
瑞典人,活着为中国娃娃而死。汉学家、工程师、摄影师、网页设计师等等。爱好:政治、历史、科技、文化等。王菲迷。自由主义者。

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