Author: warmsmile

Do u believe in homosexual love? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2006-2-28 22:25:43 |Display all floors

yay for kinky s**..

Definitely this world is over populated...depending on the country....BUT ANYWAY!!!!!

I don't bother myself on who's straight, who's not... we're all human beings and the one thing I'm sure we can all agree on, is that we know nothing about what we want... one minute we want something, one minute we dont... I say when it comes to sexuality, we all claim to be this or that, but let's face it... if some unbelieveable human being comes and fucks up our mind, they can fuck anything else.. if we don't succumb to it physically- we'll do it mentally.. and when I say this, I speak with the knowledge of any human being... We deny things to ourselves... some of us are good in lying to ourselves and succeeds, some just aren't that successful..

HUman beings are beautiful.. almost in every way... it's our responsibility not to mix that adoration we have for others.. and when we do, who can blame us?

P.S: I'm straight- and so far, I think I'm satisfied in this area...

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Post time 2006-3-1 00:34:05 |Display all floors
Maybe we only know our true sexuality after 30 because we have been free from our family constraints for long enough to get to know ourselves better, and feel more free. I've heard that too.

About the article in post #39... I am very skeptical. I don't know who wrote it but it sounds like it's from a religious group to me, and some are known to skew results and only tell the parts of the information they want to tell.

Point #2, which lists all the "family abnormalities", is such a broad range of things that could be present... those things are present in thousands (maybe millions?) of straight people's lives too!

The article is basically saying that if the child's lifestyle includes a lot of openness about homosexuality, or sexual abuse, or any other dysfunction (divorce, overly strict parents) the child will "turn gay".
How about:
- If the parents are ok about homosexuals, and invite them into their family, the child will feel MORE FREE TO TELL the parents he is gay. Maybe it's not the cause of being gay, but it allows the child to not hide it.
- What about all those situations listed, but where the children are NOT gay?

- Let's compare the US and China for a moment. I think we can all agree that it would be "more ok" to be gay in the US than in China. I don't have numbers here, but does anyone think the US has more gay people than China? I think the same (or similar) numbers exist, but less people will admit it in China, so there may *appear* to be less homosexuals in China.

So... maybe the gay children of religious, "perfect" families (not the ones listed) have simply been scared into hiding their sexuality. They were taught that they will burn in Hell if they are gay, so they are not admitting they're gay!!!
And if they take those classes that help you not be gay anymore, they just say "oh,... uh.. er... yes, I'm not gay anymore. I feel great. thank you." so that their family will now love them more and not keep bothering them about it. Then they go and do homosexual things without telling their family because they know they won't be accepted if they do.
So the church thinks they have succeeded, but they'll never really know what the person is doing when he goes on a fishing trip with his "best friend".
I am not rich.  :L

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Post time 2006-3-1 08:29:04 |Display all floors

       The writer of the report is Paul Cameron, Ph. D.   Dr. Cameron is Chariman of the Family Research Institute of Colorado Springs, Colorado USA. I think he wrote this report several years ago. The part I posted above is the second part. Next post is the first part. The report includes only two parts. At first I thought it's too long to post whole report here, now I see it's important to show not just conclusions but whole report to the readers.

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Post time 2006-3-1 08:32:09 |Display all floors
What Causes Homosexual Desire and Can It Be Changed?

     Most of us fail to understand why anyone would want to engage in homosexual activity. To the average person, the very idea is either puzzling or repugnant. Indeed, a recent survey indicated that only 14% of men and 10% of women imagined that such behavior could hold any "possibility of enjoyment."

      The peculiar nature of homosexual desire has led some people to conclude that this urge must be innate: that a certain number of people are "born that way," that sexual preferences cannot be changed or even ended. What does the best research really indicate? Are homosexual proclivities natural or irresistible?

      At least three answers seem possible. The first, the answer of tradition, is as follows: homosexual behavior is a bad habit that people fall into because they are sexually permissive and experimental. This view holds rat homosexuals choose their lifestyle as the result of self-indulgence and an unwillingness to play by society rules. The second position is held by a number of psychoanalysts (e.g., Bieber, Socarides). According to them, homosexual behavior is a mental illness, symptomatic of arrested development. They believe that homosexuals have unnatural or perverse desires as a consequence of poor familial relations in childhood or some other trauma. The third view is "biological" and holds that such desires are genetic or hormonal in origin, and that there is no choice involved and no "childhood trauma" necessary.

     Which of these views is most consistent with the facts? Which tells us the most about homosexual behavior and its origins? The answer seems to be that homosexual behavior is learned. The following seven lines of evidence support such a conclusion.

    1) No researcher has found provable biological or genitic differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals that weren't caused by their behavior
Occasionally you may read about a scientific study that suggests that homosexuality is an inherited tendency, but such studies have usually been discounted after careful scrutiny or attempts at replication. No one has found a single heredible genetic, hormonal or physical difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals - at least none that is replicable.  While the absence of such a discovery doesn't prove at inherited sexual tendencies aren't possible, it suggests that none has been found because none exists.

   2) People tend to believe that their sexual desires and behaviors are learned
Two large studies asked homosexual respondents to explain the origins of their desires and behaviors - how they "got that way." The first of these studies was conducted by Kinsey in the 1940s and involved 1700 homosexuals. The second, in 1970,  involved 979 homosexuals. Both were conducted prior to the period when the "gay rights" movement started to politicize the issue of homosexual origins. Both reported essentially the same findings: Homosexuals overwhelmingly believed their feelings and behavior were the result of social or environmental influences.

    In a 1983 study conducted by the Family Research Institute  (FRI) involving a random sample of 147 homosexuals, 35% said their sexual desires were hereditary. Interestingly, almost 80% of the 3,400 heterosexuals in the same study said that their preferences and behavior were learned (see Table 1 below).

    Table 1
Reasons For Preferring:
homosexuality (1940s and 1970)

early homosexual experience(s) with adults and/or peers - 22%
homosexual friends/ around homosexuals a lot - 16%
poor relationship with mother - 15%
unusual development (was a sissy, artistic, couldn't get along with own sex, tom-boy, et cetera) - 15%
poor relationship with father - 14%
heterosexual partners unavailable - 12%
social ineptitude - 9%
born that way - 9%
heterosexuality (1983)

I was around heterosexuals a lot - 39%
society teaches heterosexuality and I responded - 34%
born that way - 22%
my parents, marriage was so good I wanted to have what they had - 21%
I tried it and liked it - 12%
childhood heterosexual experiences with peers it was the ''in thing" in my crowd - 9%
I was seduced by a heterosexual adult - 5%
     While these results aren't conclusive, they tell something about the very recent tendency to believe that homosexual behavior is inherited or biologic. From the 1930s (when Kinsey started collecting data) to the early 1970s, before a "politically correct" answer emerged, only about 10% of homosexuals claimed they were "born that way." Heterosexuals apparently continue to believe that their behavior is primarily a result of social conditioning.

   3) Older homosexuals often approach the young
There is evidence that homosexuality, like drug use is "handed down" from older individuals. The first homosexual encounter is usually initiated by an older person. In separate studies 60%,  64%,  and 61%  of the respondents claimed that their first partner was someone older who initiated the sexual experience.

   How this happens is suggested by a nationwide random study from Britain:  35% of boys and 9% of girl said they were approached for sex by adult homosexuals. Whether for attention, curiosity, or by force, 2% of the boys and 1% of the girls succumbed. In the US,  37% of males and 9% of females reported having been approached for homosexual sex (65% of those doing the inviting were older). Likewise, a study of over 400 London teenagers reported that "for the boys, their first homosexual experience was very likely with someone older: half the boys' first partner were 20 or older; for girls it was 43 percent."  A quarter of homosexuals have admitted to sex with children and underaged teens,  suggesting the homosexuality is introduced to youngsters the same way other behaviors are learned - by experience.

   4) Early homosexual experiences influence adult patterns of behavior
In the 1980s, scholars examined the early Kinsey data to determine whether or not childhood sexual experiences predicted adult behavior. The results were significant: Homosexual experience in the early year, particularly if it was one's first sexual experience - was a strong predictor of adult homosexual behavior, both for males and females. A similar pattern appeared in the 1970 Kinsey Institute study: there was a strong relationship between those whose first experience was homosexual and those who practiced homosexuality in later life. In the FRI study two-thirds of the boys whose first experience was homosexual engaged in homosexual behavior as adults; 95% of those whose first experience was heterosexual were likewise heterosexual in their adult behavior. A similarly progressive pattern of sexual behavior was reported for females.

     It is remarkable that the three largest empirical studies of the question showed essentially the same pattern. A child's first sexual experiences were strongly associated with his or her adult behavior.

[ Last edited by warmsmile at 2006-3-1 08:10 PM ]

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Post time 2006-3-1 08:32:39 |Display all floors
5) Sexual conduct is influenced by cultural factors - especially religious convictions
Kinsey reported "less homosexual activity among devout groups whether they be Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish, and more homosexual activity among religiously less active groups."  The 1983 FRI study found those raised in irreligious homes to be over 4 times more likely to become homosexual than those from devout homes. These studies suggest that when people believe strongly that homosexual behavior is immoral, they are significantly less apt to be involved in such activity.

   Recently, because of the AIDS epidemic, it has been discovered that, relative to white males, twice as many black males are homosexual and 4 times as many are bisexual. Perhaps it is related to the fact that 62% of black versus 17% of white children are being raised in fatherless homes. But even the worst racist wouldn't suggest that it is due to genetic predisposition.

   Were homosexual impulses truly inherited, we should be unable to find differences in homosexual practice due to religious upbringing or racial sub-culture.

   6) Many change their sexual preferences
In a large random sample 88% of women currently claiming lesbian attraction and 73% of men claiming to currently enjoy homosexual sex, said that they had been sexually aroused by the opposite sex,

85% of these "lesbians" and 54% of these "homosexuals" reported sexual relations with someone of the opposite sex in adulthood,
67% of lesbians and 54% of homosexuals reported current sexual attraction to the opposite sex, and
82% of lesbians and 66% of homosexuals reported having been in love with a member of the opposite sex.
   Homosexuals experiment. They feel some normal impulses. Most have been sexually aroused by, had sexual relations with, and even fallen in love with someone of the opposite sex.

   Nationwide random samples of 904 men were asked about their sex lives since age 21, and more specifically, in the last year. As the figure reveals, 1.3% reported sex with men in the past year and 5.2% at some time in adulthood. Less than 1% of men had only had sex with men during their lives. And 6 of every 7 who had had sex with men, also reported sex with women.

   It's a much different story with inherited characteristics. Race and gender are not optional lifestyles. They remain immutable. The switching and experimentation demonstrated in these two studies identifies homosexuality as a preference, not an inevitability.

   7) There are many ex-homosexuals
Many engage in one or two homosexual experiences and never do it again–a pattern reported for a third of the males with homosexual experience in one study.  And then there are ex-homosexuals - those who have continued in homosexual liaisons for a number of years and then chose to change not only their habits, but also the object of their desire. Sometimes this alteration occurs as the result of psychotherapy;  in others it is prompted by a religious or spiritual conversion.  Similar to the kinds of "cures" achieved by drug addicts and alcoholics, these treatments do not always remove homosexual desire or temptation. Whatever the mechanism, in a 1984 study  almost 2% of heterosexuals reported that at one time they considered themselves to be homosexual. It is clear that a substantial number of people are reconsidering their sexual preferences at any given time.

[ Last edited by warmsmile at 2006-3-1 08:12 PM ]

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Post time 2006-3-1 09:29:59 |Display all floors
Warmsmile: I think your studies are biased. Recent studies into the genetic factor I think are suggesting that it's like a genetic mutation. Obviously it's not inherited--gay/lesbian couples don't reproduce.

So... maybe if all straight people stopped having babies, then gay children wouldn't be born!

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Post time 2006-3-1 10:21:48 |Display all floors

Thank you warmsmile

Here are some things about genes to consider. The articles are quite long, and there are many other articles, so I will just pick the lines that apply to this topic:

"...Such questions cycle through society repeatedly, forming the public nexus of the "nature vs. nurture controversy,".... ..... Nonetheless, the debate flares anew every few years, reigniting in response to genetic analyses of traits such as intelligence, criminality, or homosexuality, characteristics freighted with social, political, and legal meaning.

"What social consequences would genetic diagnoses of such traits as intelligence, criminality, or homosexuality have on society? What effect would the discovery of a behavioral trait associated with increased criminal activity have on our legal system? If we find a "gay gene," will it mean greater or lesser tolerance? Will it lead to proposals that those affected by the "disorder" should undergo treatment to be "cured" and that measures should be taken to prevent the birth of other individuals so afflicted?"

"No single gene determines a particular behavior. Behaviors are complex traits involving multiple genes that are affected by a variety of other factors. This fact often gets overlooked in media reports hyping scientific breakthroughs on gene function, and, unfortunately, this can be very misleading to the public."

"With disorders, behaviors, or any physical trait, genes are just a part of the story, because a variety of genetic and environmental factors are involved in the development of any trait. Having a genetic variant doesn't necessarily mean that a particular trait will develop. The presence of certain genetic factors can enhance or repress other genetic factors. Genes are turned on and off, and other factors may be keeping a gene from being turned "on." "

The above quotes are all from this page about Behavioral Genetics: ... elsi/behavior.shtml

"So how are genes turned on and off? Genes get turned on and off with a certain kind of protein called a transcription factor (TF). At their simplest, TFs can either turn genes on or off.....
TFs are called activators when they turn genes on. ..... TFs are called repressors when they work to shut off a gene. "

This quote is taken from the answer to this question:
"Why does the hair color of children often change color as they grow older? My brother, sister and I all had light blond hair as young children which gradually darkened to brunette by the time we were teenagers. Both parents are brunette. My husband is Chinese (black hair), and both of our children started out with blond hair which is darkening now as they age. My father, though brunette, also had blond hair as a kid and has blue eyes."

From this page:

It is very easy to understand, meant for average (though somewhat smart!) people, it's not too scientific

So I think , that like everything else, it is genetic. Maybe some of us are born with this possibility and in some it gets turned on more than in others. Perhaps some of the above ideas from warmsmile's article can help to turn genes on or off!

So maybe we are all right!
(freakyqi is always looking for the harmonious answer!)
I am not rich.  :L

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