Author: soudenjapan

Is there anything we should learn from today's China? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2005-12-22 15:43:20 |Display all floors

#53 Zeoblade

So, we foreigners don't understand the Chinese way of doing business
because we don't understand the values and principles of the Chinese.

Please explain to the the so-called "values and principles" of the rampant
theft and wholesale reproduction of CDs, DVDs, computer software, books,
designer name clothing, famous name wrist watches, famous name golf
equipment, etc., etc., etc.  And, the Chinese government gives it lip service
and virtually looks the other way.  One can buy a DVD movie anyplace on
the streets of Shenzhen for 5 RMB - 60 cents USD.  Such movies would cost
approximately 100 to 175 RMB in the U.S.  Cost doesn't matter - it is still
counterfeiting and outright theft.

China's "values and principles" allow the government to place tariffs on
incoming autos and auto parts to protect the weak Chinese auto industry.
This just runs up the price of auto purchase for the average Chinese - so
who does this hurt?

The Chinese people have already experienced the quality of Japanese,
Taiwanese, European and yes, even American built cars.  Generally, they
are much superior to the stuff built in China.  Seventy five years ago in the
U.S., there were dozens of auto manufacturers - now we have the Big 3 -
Ford, GM and Chrysler plus the invaders from Japan, Taiwan and Europe.

Right now, China has over 100 car manufacturers.  I strongly believe that
with 10-20 years - China will have just a few home grown Chinese auto
companies.  I think the foreign companies will dominate with their
superior equipment.  In 2020, there will be less than 10 Chinese auto
companies.  Wait and see.  Thank you.

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Post time 2005-12-22 18:46:53 |Display all floors

China has done its share

"The World is forever in debt to China for its innovations.
Ancient China was extreme advance and many of its discoveries are
still in use today. This is what Robert Temple, the author of ‘The
Genius of China 3000 years of science, discovery and invention', claimed.
Robert Temple concentrates the bulk of his examples in
these three categories, agriculture, domestic and industrial
technology and engineering. Temple's examples were not limited
to these fields of innovation. The Chinese excelled in many other
areas, including mathematics, warfare and transportation, to name a

“Francis Bacon (1561-1626), an early advocate of file empirical method, upon which the scientific revolution was based, attributed Western Europe's early modern take-off to three things in particular: printing, the compass, and gunpowder. Bacon had no idea where these things had come from, but historians now know that all three were invented in China.”

According to Joseph Neeham: “ A common stereotype is that the Chinese traditionally lack scientific and technological ability, although, somehow, they stumbled upon papermaking, printing, gunpowder, and the mariner's compass. Modern Chinese, themselves, sometimes are surprised to realize that modern agriculture, shipping, astronomical observatories, decimal mathematics, paper money, umbrellas, wheelbarrows, multi-stage rockets, brandy and whiskey, the game of chess, and much more, all came from China.” ... hina/LP_china_8.htm

In other words, China has done its share to have contributed the most life sustainable inventions to the world, enabling the West to improve on many of the models with given base ideas. Unfortunately, the weakening caused by internal conflicts, eg, reckless Yuan dynasty emperor ( Mongol) and corrupted Chin dynasty ( Manchu), the majority of Han Chinese suffered greatly, worse came the betrayal of Japan who benefited most from looting in China due to geographical advantage, and the orchestrated invasion by coalition of other 7 Western countries with tips from Japan. It's been said that Japan looted at least 6000 tons of gold amongst other treasures. Most of the looted items can still be seen in the museums in all these countries. The last blow was the opium poison pushed by G.Britain that destroyed the millions minds for years. Due to these events, China has lost the last 100 years in developments. Why is it none of these looters and liars ask a question how China was destroyed by them, instead of asking what China can contribute to the world today?

Even with all its lost wealth, China has been contributing to the world all the times in subtle ways, just look around the household items in your house, and try to dismantle the computer you are using now to see the internal components, if China has not participated in the production of these goods, the ideas would not travel far and the concepts would not sustain its life span. The most, it’d benefit only the top 10 or 20 countries with strong economy, how about other 130 countries in the world?

Why don’t we ask how many modern inventions are sustainable? Certain countries earn popularity for producing just novelty, I have no objection to that, it serves to entertain and kill time. While millions are dying in other parts of the world, what is the fun for paying US$200 for a wafer thin iPod that breaks down in days? What is the use of paying US$ 150 – 200 for a Bluetooth earphone that has no safety against overheating while charging the battery? What is the joy for paying US$2000 for a compact mini DVD player to watch movie by himself instead of being with family or a partner? While China earns no credit for helping to reduce this cost for such a quick passing fad, it gets accusation for not creating some sort of the same waste.

China has the highest population in the world, this is no easy task to handle, the basic need is to find occupation for each one and feed all the families. In some ways, I think it’s right that China make a maximum use of its human resources by avoiding certain wasteful technology. Many jobless in the developed countries are the victims of their own success. Take a walk in their cities, how many vending machines have replaced the traditional vendors? The newspaper vendor by the London tube shouts around for breaking news, in Geneva, the vendor is a plastic box with coin insert, and it is sometimes littered like a dustbin. Who would you prefer as vendor? Many jobless in the West also spend time spreading hate message to their government in the graffiti, while China has people do cleaning all the time, either with bloom or bucket of water, nothing stay so idle. One cleaning street machine in the West sacrifices 20 to 50 unskilled workers. This is not bad as idea if they’re short of man power, but the problem in China is the opposite, too many unskilled people looking for job, it makes no sense to invest millions of dollars in one machine to be manned by one or two trained persons.

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Post time 2005-12-22 18:49:25 |Display all floors

China has done its share (II)

The West or countries with limited resources should thank China for willing to take up the low-cost production as these items form the largest part of our daily household expense. With this complementary role, the West is able to concentrate on developing high-tech products, China would come around to give them a wide market by buying up their produce. This also allows the West to go further in exploring innovations, if they have no market, what is the point of this investment? However, in real term, it seems awfully unfair to China, as the population gets better and better educated, no one will want to stay in low-cost production. The high-tech purchase also cannot last forever, not to mention China gets no thanks for that, it poses a danger to its own population for deprivation of research and some aspects of security.

Since long in the history, China pays no attention to trademark patency, many of its ideas were copied and being modeled into something of other countries, and they turn around to lock it with intellectual property right. This is the biggest weakness for China. China also doesn’t place importance in its own achievement and rarely brags about it in the media or invest much in advertisement. What holds China back from exporting a distinctive feature is its wrongly placed modesty, it lacks the will to promote anything Chinese to non – Chinese, also, it is too accommodating to non-Chinese for its principle of keeping peace and harmony with others. Chinese will never insist a non-Chinese to speak Chinese, and to them is a basic politeness to speak in English automatically if there is any non-Chinese around. This modesty has discouraged China from searching a unique idea to export to other nations.

However, many foreigners still learn of the fascination about China through its cultural presence in many parts of the world. A north African told me, in Algeria, they are so impressed with Chinese ethics that many have been mobilized to work harder because of Chinese help in local housing construction projects. For tens of years, many poor people have no proper housing, since the Chinese help arrived, many houses were built within a year. Then they realized their government didn’t do anything to motivate the local workers. While the Chinese just get on with the work instead of arguing with the state for all sorts of fanciful benefits.
When I spent my holidays in northern France, I was impressed by a group of French practicing Tai Chi on the beach, it was so serene and beautiful with those graceful movements and had the blue sea as backdrop. While walking on the 13th district in Paris one morning, a group of 20 middle-aged to elderly were doing Tai Chi in the park.

A Spanish friend told me that since she’s changed the living room to Chinese furniture and decors, her long spout of depression had disappeared. She probably didn’t know of Feng Shui (geomancy) but the elegant and fine furniture had brought calm, simplicity and different beauty to her perception. It is not the Chinese furniture that cures her depression, it is just that well selected items whilst well  placed exude such solemn beauty compared to her old clutter of furnitures, she begins to appreciate the refreshness and simplicity brought by the Chinese feeling.
While the West has aerobic exercise and dances, China has excellent acrobat and martial arts, not only for health, but for skill of self-defense.
Chinese food gives the widest variety, from a meal that costs US$ 4 per head to US$ 4000 per head. And they rarely go wrong even if you just take a random pick.
China has also made possible haute-couture fashion to street fashion. In the past, only the rich and famous were able to wear what they saw from the cat walk and vogue, now any trendy one can afford that. In a French report, many clothes cost thousands of euro to make, didn’t sell as well as the ones that cost around 100 euro, this is possible today thanks to China.
One day, when you run out of hope in western health therapy, Chinese acupuncture and massage will bring back life to you with a new spring.

As we all can see, China has chosen to take a back seat calmly, it has no ambition to compete with others for number 1 or any super crown. It provides a solid base, while others perform the novelty, there is no comparison necessary, only complement, no one should take number one position in all fields, China has contributed a lot of essentials to the world but has no intention to claim any title, is that wrong too?

[ Last edited by riceroot at 2005-12-23 02:40 AM ]

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Post time 2005-12-22 19:10:21 |Display all floors

# 57 Nissan3

"..rampant theft and wholesale reproduction of CDs, DVDs, computer software, books,
designer name clothing, famous name wrist watches, famous name golf
equipment, etc., etc., etc."

if you call this theft, it is a minor crime, it is practised in many poor countries, not only China, even in London and Paris, the local English and French stall keepers rely on this for living as they're the ones being edged out by modern technology and excluded in their paperchase society.
What you don't mention and see is the high-tech theft by the rich countries in banking scandals, oil swindle, credit card thefts, identity theft, car theft, property false data, this amount to billions of dollars, what is there to compare to the paltry gains by these street peddlers?
Those original goods owner make a pompous claim of their loss of millions by ASSUMING that those buyers of fake would pay for the exorbitant price charged. Many buyers of fake know exactly they are fake and they're happy to give it a try by taking this risk, but if you ask them for an honest answer if they'd pay for the originals, most would laugh off their heads to tell you to wait for the day when they win a lottery.
I don't encourage production of fake goods, but the original producers should spare some consideration for the dirt poor and produce some goods at reasonable price for the poor. Had it not been for the fake, many products would not have gained their wide popularity.  The rich would not pay for the fake if they have the money, they just want to spend their money, would not try to save for buying the fake. That shows fake goods strive well because of a need to satisfy some poor people's materialistic taste, they don't want to lose out to the rich but lack the means.
What will drive me mad is the fake sold in famous department stores in many developed countries and charge you for the price of the original. That's what I'll call an outright theft !

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Post time 2005-12-24 13:36:39 |Display all floors


Your argument is weak.

I don't care in what country counterfeiting takes place nor in what country the
fake merchandise is sold ----


There is a concept of right and wrong.   It's either theft or it is not theft.

This is like a woman who is one month pregnant saying she is "only a little
pregnant".  She is either pregnant or she is not pregnant.

A lot of experts believe that China will only start strongly combatting the
outright theft of intellectual property, the violation of trademarks and the
violation of copyrights is when Chinese citizens start developing more
innovative products, develop more software, develop more written materials
and then start bitterly complaining about the theft of their home grown ideas
by other Chinese who happen to be pirates or counterfeiters.

I make the rash assumption that China's entrance into the WTO meant China wanted to be a full-fledged member, with all it's righs and privileges, plus the
respect that comes with WTO membership.

What is China doing, as it's requirement per WTO membership, to quash rampant intellectual property piracy in China?

Not a hell of a lot!

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Post time 2005-12-24 13:50:20 |Display all floors


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