Author: thelaststraw

why don't you japanese ppl understand? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2005-7-18 21:10:20 |Display all floors

what is going on ???

I tried to send an other message but it has been deleted everytime !!

Have you guys had the same problem ??Is it done on purpose ? Too subversive maybe ?

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Post time 2005-7-18 21:20:25 |Display all floors

By the way

I had a discussion with one of my best friends: She is an educated Chinese, traditional AND as she calls herself: “Nationalist” (which means to her that she loves her country and could die for it but not for stupid reasons !!).
Here is what she told me : Maybe the Chinese government is keeping this hatred alive so the Chinese will direct their anger toward Japan and forget to look what is going on in China : corruption everywhere, people still starving in some provinces, no healthcare etc….
The same happened under the Roman Empire : “Give the people bread and games ..” !
It means that as long as the people have something to eat and have entertainment they will not think about what is going on with their government. Etc…
A really good lesson of history!
This is what I can see here in Beijing : my young Chinese friends have a job, live in nice apartments, go to disco and bars where we can dance listening to Hip Hop, can buy very cheap DVD’s and can go travel around the world.
They just keep telling me: “what should we care about politics?”  so I guess this is why most of the Chinese won’t wonder why the hatred toward Japan is still alive and strong !! They just don’t bother question themselves as long as they can buy their AUDI car and have fun !!
If you don’t even question yourself , therefore you don’t question your government, and if you don’t question your government then you don’t question its reasons to act one way or another…

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Post time 2005-7-18 21:21:31 |Display all floors

last try

To Niulaoye
I think you might have misunderstood Oolala about what you call “the Jungle law”.
I am quite sure that Oolala did not mean that a powerful country which is heavily armed and strong can invade the ones which are not…
I think the war he is talking about is ECONOMIC.  And yes, the countries with economic power rule over the world…. Have you ever heard about the G8???
You will be happy to know that China is a part of the “strong”, that many people in the world are losing their jobs because it is cheaper to produce goods in this country….

So it is my guess that what Oolala suggests is : if China could leave the past to the past both your countries could overcome Europe and the states in terms of Economic power !!!

To Oolala,
Please correct me if the intentions I gave you are wrong..
By the way I really appreciated what you wrote about “maybe the two of us are wrong”.
I know how it feels to be ashamed of what some of your countrymen have done in the past : just a reminder of history : The French government and many French have helped the Nazzis to capture Jewish people, communists and Roms…. I don’t need anybody to tell me I should feel ashamed for them because I do !!! Should I wear a sign around my neck to let Jewish people know that??
More recently I have learned that a squadron of the French army has helped massacres during the war in Rwanda!
I could not believe it : collective rape of women, gathering villagers for bloodthirsty people to slaughter them with machetes like animals.
Do you think Thelastraw will ask me to apologise to every man or woman of Rwanda ?? Do I feel ashamed? YES! Do I have to apologise?  As far as I am concerned NO because I did not participate to theses horrors and would not have encouraged them have I known before!

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Post time 2005-7-18 21:25:09 |Display all floors

misunderstanding ?

To Niulaoye
I think you might have misunderstood Oolala about what you call “the Jungle law”.
I am quite sure that Oolala did not mean that a powerful country which is heavily armed and strong can invade the ones which are not…
I think the war he is talking about is ECONOMIC.  And yes, the countries with economic power rule over the world…. Have you ever heard about the G8???
You will be happy to know that China is a part of the “strong”, that many people in the world are losing their jobs because it is cheaper to produce goods in this country….

So it is my guess that what Oolala suggests is : if China could leave the past to the past both your countries could overcome Europe and the states in terms of Economic power !!!

To Oolala,
Please correct me if the intentions I gave you are wrong..
By the way I really appreciated what you wrote about “maybe the two of us are wrong”....

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Post time 2005-7-19 18:38:28 |Display all floors

To Oolala: why not before

"And why not before? Hasn't it been too long since then? Bringing up about WWII in politics nowadays is so WEIRD, not only in Japan, but in any countries. "

I can somehow understand your feelings, are you in your early 20's? Well, feeling kind of sorry for what your government and the school have done to you.
You might have already learned about this in the history lesson no matter how correct they are, personally I don't believe any country is able to teach its history with other countries 100% correctly, especially the Western countries, they have no idea about the history in Asia, many Europeans used to think Japanese and Chinese were the same people until ‘probably’ this year that they got things exactly right.
For most Chinese, the atrocity in this war could never have erased in the memory but most choose to move on, it is simply human nature as many Chinese already think 24 hours are not enough to make a day, it needs maybe 30. I also believe no Japanese is ignorant of atom bomb by the US, no great noise is made against the US ‘yet’ because it hasn’t touched on the most sensitive issue in Japan, instead, things are going quite favorable to Japan right now, but I hope the smart Japanese haven’t lost their heads if they know what US is like as a country, look at how they treat their usual or rather ‘ex’ allies like Germany and France, remember this slogan by Condi Rice, “Ignore Germany and Punish France”. Try to start counting your lucky days now, it won’t last too long. They have found a new mate in Asia- India, soon they’ll kick out Japan.

You said “why not before?” That is right, many Chinese also ask the same question, why now? If you followed your government actions well, there exists already some territorial dispute between China and Japan for sometime, but both were diplomatic enough to hold on to solve in dialogue. But why on earth Japan government started to cross the diplomatic line to declare alliance with US in the affairs of China and Taiwan? Japan invited troubles to himself. Do you think China should work with US to advise on the disputed islands between Russia and Japan? Can you open your eyes and ears to see what is wrong here? That bold statement caught everyone by shock and discomfort, not only in China but the whole of East Asia, even the Chinese communities in far away land like in Europe and US. Everyone asks why? What on earth is Japan up to? Are Japanese really keen on the issues about Taiwan, no, they are not. But yes politically. Using Taiwan as political pawn to play games with China in order to please US or gain more favor from US.

Don’t forget, this year is also the 60th anniversary for end of WWII, even if all Chinese block their memory about this painful past, but our eyes can’t be blind to the flashing news all over the globe about this WWII. In Europe, since beginning of the year till now, they haven’t stopped talking about Nazi’s atrocity. That makes a natural parallel comparison. With China’s economic picking up, many countries also won’t leave China alone, trying to dig China’s past and bullshit much about China’s future as if they all live in China and know better than China.
That is one of the reasons why now this issue is out in all front.
However, it's the irritation from Japan make most of the reasons. Japan's government seems to lack some sensitivity or trying to be provocative to approve that fictional school textbook by the government and it came out in head news. That was a clear deliberation. Actually, who cares what you teach your kids but the fact is the government’s approval and the loud noise made about its application. China and Korea mind, in my eyes, is because they care, they still care, and they care for the future young generations in Japan to understand the signification of the war. China and Korea wished (at least before the spat occurred) to continue a proper, normal, friendly and good relationship with Japan.

Other irritations include Koizumi’s visit to the Shrine and repeated stinging remarks and of course that theatrical planned ‘apology’ in April, do you not feel embarrassed by his action re: apology? ( no offence, just being curious). Personally, I didnt  expect to see that apology, it wasnt directing to China anyway, it was to whole Asia, as if Japan see China as a whole Asia then it accused China to speak for whole Asia. You see, Japan government cant even be coherent in international speech. We'd rather like to see actions, then again, did you see how Japan respond its words in actions? I hope your government, won't apologise anymore, that'd been quite embarrassing. I think now the world has understood better why several apologies did not get registered. Japan government portrayed itself as crafty & opportunist in desperate moments.

Another reason “why now”, because the previous Japanese government were more prudent, it ‘seemed’ to most Chinese in the region that Japan ‘had probably shown’ its remorse in the past but were badly surprised by all these Japanese declarations and provocations this year, so now we know the Japan government is not remorse about it at all. Perhaps the good faith shown in the past by the Chinese towards the Japanese have been tricked by Japan's silent internal aggression? Now Japan shows its true colour because of the worry that China is getting economically strong and Japan is desperately trying to win favor from US that it scarifies the peaceful relation with China to please US on the issue on Taiwan. For this, most Chinese got a sting like sitting on the needles, so I can imagine how they feel for those in China( a clear reminder of that alliance build-up before that war invasion).

A lot of Chinese also don't need the textbook to know the truth, since the victims are so large in numbers, the wave of the survived who escaped after the war had sent the Chinese to all over the world to live to tell the truth. 60 years were not very long ago if the strong young men in their 20’s managed to escape, today they are in their 80’s, the age of your grandparents.
My grandfather was one example, he was buried alive by the Japanese, managed to escape to S.E Asia. What I learned in school was not the horrified version of the war. The surviving oversea Chinese had no intention at all to educate the young of the revenge, that idea did not exist at all, instead we learned a lot about trading, tourism & culture in Japan. But we did learn about all the wrongs done by the previous CCP. I first learned of the awful atrocity of this war when I was about 9, found a book by mistake, a book hidden by my father using a plain paper to cover its title. Naturally, I flipped the pages looking for pictures, each photo I saw made me sick( till today haven't seen anything more disgusting), had nightmares then after. I took weeks to finish reading that book in secret without telling my father. Then I pretended I didn't see that book, just asked my father what happened at that war. He refused to discuss with me, saying it was over, it won't comeback in our days, only told me that my grandfather was buried alive and escaped, thanked to great luck, not a single bad word on Japan and the Japanese. My curiosity didn’t stop there, went after my grandfather, but saw his tears dropped, so decided to drop the subject, few months later he passed away. Well, the daily chores took over in life, I was too busy with exams and school works, never again pursued this subject until I finished my studies in Europe. Here I learn more about wars, each time they talk of Nazi, it makes think of war on China by Japan.
Before I left for Europe, we lived quite happily with a Japanese family as neighbour in our apartment block. My mother and that Japanese housewife couldn’t communicate much but they did it with exchange of food, gifts, and smile.  
So Oolala, don't think all Chinese naturally chose to breed this hatre, every result comes from a cause. I don't hate Japan, just simply hope this present government go away and leave the ordinary peace loving Japanese and Chinese get on well in life, for a better and more friendly future.

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Post time 2005-7-19 18:44:35 |Display all floors

To Oalala: why now?

If you still can't understand it, turn the scenario around, assuming that it was China that attacked Japan and carried out this atrocity, and how would you feel then today? Wouldn't you be in rage if China tries to poke your nerve every now and then?
China is not a country of aggression except out of self defense. Also, most Chinese believe that the ghosts will never leave you if you kill someone.
Oolala, another truth is, most Chinese don't talk about this war until this year, at least in all my life till now that this issue pops out, thanks to Japan government's provocations.
I'm not sure, Oolala, if you'd agree, this is perhaps a good thing that China & Japan talk about it now, that's why it's important to get the school text right instead of burying the truth forever. To discuss it more in public will get us sensitized about the hidden shock and anger. I can imagine this ( that April manifestation) must have come about like a big shock to many young Japanese, since they didn't get the true version in history they knew about, therefore they didn't know much about the extent of pain this war had inflicted on the Chinese because the Chinese also rarely showed it ( pain) since the past Japanese government was prudent enough not to stoke it up and Chinese government had a tight control over speech on war. But truth is truth, it'll come out one day. I think, in future, when the Chinese in China will get more freedom of speech, the discussion on this issue will get more boiling if the present both governments still don't handle it well. I think both the Chinese and Japanese have buried this issue for too long.
In Germany and France, they discuss their past war more often and readily, the Germans acknowledge it every year on the anniversary that people are getting less and less sensitive on this issue. It is in fact no longer an issue, it has already become such a widely known fact that the French don't even talk about it anymore. Even when some magazine tried to mention that the descendants of mixed German and French parents are often being ridiculed and labeled with rude terms, it made no waves because all know that is just some minority’s sinister work.
But I must admit that German and French do not share the same culture background as Japanese and Chinese.

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Post time 2005-7-20 00:02:46 |Display all floors

pathetic

pathetic pathetic

go to skyscraper forum and the china mainland part and read the post "discussion of beijing vs south korea" or something and ull get what i mean

anna luo (prob chinese chick)
china is considered poor but it is also reducing poverty at an alarming speed. Maybe u think the govt isnt doing anything about it well it is and improvements are whats important u cant expect it to be like japan or usa in 1 year.since there are so many ppl its gonna take heaps longer

even if china will have 500 million middle class citizens, greater than the entire population of other countries the other 500 or so rural ppl will just pull the average down. will u still see it as a poor and backward country

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