Author: bendent

hey come here chinese ppl [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2005-6-28 16:46:31 |Display all floors

Re: Indian sage confused.

"We are keen to remember and unforgiving especially when the same people are planning to become militaristic again."

Excuse me, but what evidence do you have for this statement? WHere does it come from? It is obviously false, so I am really curious to what your sources are.

Most people the world over are far more worried about China becoming an aggressive militarist nation.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-6-28 20:13:27 |Display all floors

errrr

hey mengzhi i sank my own boat because im scared to say what i really wanted to say because some ppl think that u shouldnt criticise other countries if ur own country is crap.....

anyway liangzai since ur a non chinese person can u criticise the japanese govt for us since u believe chinese ppl are not entitled to?

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2005-6-28 20:54:23 |Display all floors

Re: errrr

Oh, please go ahead and criticize.

I have yet to see a well versed critique of Japan coming from a Chinese. Maybe you will be the first?

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-7-1 07:49:53 |Display all floors

The hollow argument.

liangzai :     If you insist that a person or a country should not criticise anyone else until and unless he is perfect , then political comments will be extinct ! If you are brave enough to tell me your country of origin , I will surely be  able to list the short comings of your history as well. This sort of hollow argument is a no brainer. It is the coward's castle to hide in.

Japan under Koizumi is hell bent in clinging to Uncle Sams coat tail because he is desperately trying to get the US to untie the surrender Constitution. This document prohibits Japan from having anything but a limited military force called the Self Defence Force. (SDF).  Implicitly Japan is prevented from arming herself with attack weapons and is not allowed to send combat troops outside her boundaries. That is why Japanese troops in Iraq are euphemistically labelled as on ' peaceful reconstruction ' role and have to be protected by Australian troops. Koizumi knows that his lord and master Duba would be happy to dispense with this constitutional restrictions, allow Japanese to rearm ( military Shinto regime again ) and be the US attack dog in the containment of China. This is there for all , and blind Freddie , to see. One does not need a 'source ' for such common knowledge liangzai.

Our Indian friend bendent is too confused at the moment.  He is still trying to untangle from the self made spins and twists. When he has managed that perhaps we can hear something worthwhile or cogent from the Indian sage.

Just in conclusion a reminder to liang that you should tell us your country of origin , if you have the guts. I should perhaps not hold my breath?

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Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2005-7-1 14:25:43 |Display all floors

Re: The hollow argument.

Oh, I will tell you my country of origin: Sweden.

No problem. And I will be the first in line to criticize it. I have done it many times, and I will do it again. Because my country benefits from (valid) critique. And above all, I am entitled, and even encouraged, to criticize it.

Now, let's have a look at Sweden. It is a welfare country. Most and everyone has a living standard most people in the world can only dream of. There is more equity and equality in Sweden than in most places on earth. One would be stupid to dismiss Sweden as a bad place.

However, there is no paradise on earth, and even the most developed nations have to keep on developing and refining their society. You could argue that Sweden's taxes are too high, stifling innovation and entrepeneurs, creating unemployment and so on. The number of poor people living on the streets have gone up, and so on. Violence is on the rise, and so is social unrest, because these are times of change.

You could also criticize Sweden for being a coward during World War II, being neutral, not coming to the rescue when Scandinavian brothers in Denmark and Norway were attacked by the Nazis. You could criticize Sweden for being cowardess wheh Soviet troops attacked neigbhoring Finland. You could criticize Sweden for being a small cocky nation screaming about human rights, when at the same time Sweden has been criticized by Amensty International and the United Nations for violating those very rights. Sweden has some nasty stuff in the luggage, such as a "race institute" in the 1920s, and also for sterilizing minorities all the way into the 70s. You could criticize Sweden for being a cradle-to-death socialist welfare state, and you would be darn right.

The point is, on issues where Sweden comes out on the top, they DO have the right to criticize others. They CAN criticize the crippling of the internet in China, because there is no such crippling in Sweden. They CAN refuse Chen Shuibian entry into the country, because they have taken a stand on the one China policy, even though many consider Taiwan a democratic country of its own. They CAN criticize many a nation's labor laws or judicial systems in general, because the judicial system in Sweden is relatively strong and independent. They CAN criticize nations with the death penalty, because they don't have it themselves. And so on.

But they CANNOT criticize countries for being cowards, because in that area Sweden has a heavy and recent legacy. It would be immoral, and no one would listen.

And Sweden CAN criticize nations of being brutal against its own citizens, because Sweden doesn't have a very tangible record in that area. Therefore, Sweden regularly criticizes China, and rightly so. The critique is aimed at China bettering itself, maturing a bit, joining the world of humane nations.

Sweden also criticizes Japan and other nations, when this is motivated. Above all, Sweden regularly criticizes ITSELF, when so is considered necessary.

You, too, are welcome to criticize my country. You will not be censored. But if your critique is not well-versed, and if it is coming from a source whose country has a far worse record, the critique will indeed be ignored. It will be dismissed as the words of a lunatic or a propagandist. Western people are trained to spot propaganda, and they are trained to be independent in their mind.

Now, for Japan building up an aggressive military force in order to attack other nations... that is just rubbish. It is a foolish claim. What SOURCES do you have for this, other than Renmin Ribao? Democratic nations -- Japan is a democracy -- do not go to war just like that.

And neither Japan nor the USA is interested in "containing" China. That is such a stupid thought. They want China to progress, to evolve, to become rich, to prosper, because then they can sell their stuff to China and have a share of that prosperity. This is how it works. The richer we all get, the better for each and everyone. The USA does NOT want unstable and poor regions, all the least an unstable Southeast Asia. The Pakistan and India issue is already creating headaches everywhere, not to mention Afghanistan (which was contained, and rightly so).

Now let me see some well-versed critique of Sweden and Japan that can be said without resorting to throwing stones in a glass house... for fuck's sake, let me also see some well-versed critique of YOUR OWN country.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-7-1 23:40:48 |Display all floors

hey meng whatever

im not indian and im not a male....

hey liangzai (prob really ugly) one thing i know for sure is that japans textbooks distort history till present day while chinas ones exaggerates its own history therefore they are different. since u criticise other countries dont expect china to keep silent whether ppls opinions are crap or not according to u because ppl analyse different opinions and usually they dont care what some ppl think if these opinions are completely crap due to misunderstandings

hey liang u probably think ur western views and thinking are much more superior but fortunately asian ppl never think the same way u guys do in a couple of decades everythings gonna be turned around fortunately its only been 200 years or so u guys have been powerful thats kinda short considering chinas history

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-7-2 10:45:55 |Display all floors

Reply: Re: The hollow argument.

liangzai,

Seems you are proud of your country, that is fine to me.

However, I have hard time to understand the point you have repeated over and over - "if your critique is not well-versed, and if it is coming from a source whose country has a far worse record, the critique will indeed be ignored. It will be dismissed as the words of a lunatic or a propagandist."

Can you tell me why it should be ignored if the critique is from a man whose country has worse record?

I don't think the majority of Chinese have a problem to accept constructive criticism, and when we accept criticism, we don't care where the  criticism come from. Even the criticism is from a Sumalian, it would be still accepted as long as it is a constructive one. In other hand, a criticism may not be accepted if it is ignorant one and from an arrogant Swedish who believe he is superior than Chinese because he is Swedish.

It is fine to be proud of your country, but never feel superior because of your country. You are an individual, show how good you can be as a man. A man from the best country in the world can be a moron, a man from the worst country can be very smart, intelligent.

You need to learn some scientific way of thinking.

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