Author: thestud

Changing China: the evolving Chinese dialects [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2004-8-31 17:12:35 |Display all floors

Back to dialects

The dialect map
20040831171235dba7.jpg

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Post time 2004-8-31 19:23:12 |Display all floors

Zooming in on the Wu dialect (Color Red in the dialect map)

The Wu (吴) dialect, aka J!angzhe Hua (江浙话), can be divided into 5 subtypes (or pian's):

1. Taihu Pian: Includes J!angsu, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Jiaqing, Huzhou, Ningbo, and Shaoxing.

2. Taizhou Pian: Includes eastern Zhej!ang around the area of Taizhou.

3. Wenzhou Pian: Includes Wenzhou and surrounding areas.

4. Wuzhou Pian: Includes Central Zhej!ang around the area of Jinhua.

5. Liqu Pian: Includes Southwest Zhej!ang around the areas of Lishui, Longquan, and Quzhou etc.

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Post time 2004-8-31 19:39:44 |Display all floors

Guangxi

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Post time 2004-9-1 06:19:41 |Display all floors

Re: "Regarding Wuyu,only areas of J!angsu where it is spoken are those areas sou

This had been well illustrated in the dialect map.

In case you didn't know, gtnbia, the two black curves stretching from west to east in the map are the Yellow River (upper curve) and Yangtze River (lower curve).

The Wu dialect region (color red) is all below the Yangtze River.

Same can be said about the Gan (color yellow) and Xiang (color pink) dialect regions.

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Post time 2004-9-1 16:02:12 |Display all floors

gtnbia

Please check the may here:

Qin Dynasty:
http://map.huhai.net/18-19.jpg

You will see from there that Qin's boudary was actually the boudary between agriculture civilization and nomadic tribe (Great Wall was the boudary) in north. In South, the boudary is fertile farmland and moutain tribes, where the land were not suitable for farming.

What you found from websites, could be the event of "ing Bai Yue", it was true the war between Qin and Bai Yue ( means hundreds of tribes). The war happened because of the robbery from mountain tribes. And Qin didn't defeated Bai Yue until very late of Qin dynasty. It was nothing to do with colony or invasion.

http://map.huhai.net/22-23.jpg

China boudary expension was happened in Han, not Qin.

You may have to use the words such as colony, invasion with care. China had occupied all the land that good for farming in East Asia long time before Qin, historically, Chinese had no desire to colonize anywhere, because nowhere else were suitable for farming. The wars between China and her neighbours were basically the wars between resident agriculture civilization and aggresive nomadic tribes or kingdoms.

If you read up European history, you would find the same story that the wars between civilized nations and aggresive nomadic tribes. So why don't you tell me that European colonized and invaded Mongles?

Well, you will tell me it is not true, because Mongles invaded Europ and colonized Europ. I am here telling you the same thing that the wars in China history mostly were the Chinese protecting their home from the invasion of nomadic/mountain tribes/kingdoms.

A good book may help you and many westerners to understand world history without too much fixed thinking and prejudice.

"The Empire of the Steppes --a history of central Asia", by Rene Grousset.

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Post time 2004-9-2 15:19:17 |Display all floors

To The Stud et al,

Excuse me for diverting from the topic but due to your posting of the dialect map, I just found out that the Chinese character for the Wu dialect is exactly the same as my Chinese surname (but of course, we pronounce it as "Ng" in Cantonese or "Ngoh/Goh" in Hokkien/Amoy).  I've mentioned in other threads that I'm in the process of rediscovering my roots and I wonder if there is any relation between my surname and the Wu dialect region.  Can I safely assume that my ancestors came from the same area?

I'd appreciate your inputs.  Thank you very much.

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Post time 2004-9-3 13:34:47 |Display all floors

The last name Wu

Confucius said, "Tai Bo could be called a man of the highest virtue. For several times he gave up his right to the throne in favour of Ji Li, his brother. The common people could not find a proper word to praise him for it." (from Analects of Confucius 11)

Note: Tai Bo was the oldest son of Duke Dan Fu, the forefather of Zhou empire. The Duke had three sons: Tai Bo, Zhong Yong and Ji Li. He intended to pass the throne to Ji Li, the third son instead of Tai Bo, the oldest. To comply with the father's will, Tai Bo left with Zhong Yong. Tai's action shows filial piety as well as deference. Hence, Confucius' acclaim, "the highest virtue".

Tai Bo and Zhong Yong left the Zhou kingdom to the south east coast, where they set up their own kingdom, Wu. With Wu Zi Xu as prime minister and Sun Wu as general, Wu became a powerful kingdom, defeated Chu, Yue and Ji, and began to challenge Jin. Unfortunately, Wu’s duke Fu Cha became arrogant and refused to listen to Wu Zi Xu, leading to the elimination of Wu by Yue. Descendents of Fu Cha began to bear the last name of Wu ever since.

Other sources for the family name Wu:

1) descendents of Wu Quan, an official of Zhuan Xu (2,513 – 2435 B.C.);
2) descendents of Yu Shun (2,255 – 2,205 B.C.);
3) descendents of the famous archer of Xia Shao Kang (2,079-2,057 B.C.).

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